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Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

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Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#211

Post by ksec »

Dave3of5 wrote: post #189
jiggawatts wrote: post #80

Some people are saying that they don't feel the need for > 1 Gbps in a home network. As a counter-point, I'm regularly limited by 1 Gbps PHY limits. During the 2 years of the pandemic I've been working from home with gigabit Internet. Why gigabit? Because that's the "speed limit" of the Ethernet PHY in the fibre broadband box, and also my laptop's ethernet port. My laptop can write to disk at multiple GB per second,…

> Azure that can easily do 20 Gbps out to the Internet I have tested Azure and AWS speed out to the internet and they too won't get 20/100 Gbps. That high bandwidth is for connecting instances within the AZ. Once any of the traffic has to go over the internet it's much lower. > I'll regularly pull down 50-200 GB to my laptop for some reason or another This is a serious failure in your workflow. You should be looking…

> AWS speed out to the internet and they too won't get 20/100 Gbps.

Exactly. I understand why some may want or need 10Gbps. But OP comment should not even be top voted.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#212

Post by l30n4da5 »

Dave3of5 wrote: post #190
l30n4da5 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

windows docker images are incredibly bloated. I don't think I've seen one that size, but the base image for a windows container is like 17GB by itself, if I remember correctly. Basically just pulling down an entire Hyper-V image.

> windows docker images are incredibly bloated They are no-where near that size ...

base image for .NET Framework is 10GB.

they only get larger from there. Largest on my machine right now is showing to take 20GB. Granted there are a lot of shared layers between images, so the amount of space on-disk is much less than 20GB. But if you don't have any of the layers already? You're looking at 20GB easy.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#213

Post by ksec »

erik wrote: post #84
buro9 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of reasons: 1. Consumer broadband speeds rarely exceed 1Gbps 2. 1Gbps Local network transfers are seldom slowed by the network (as large file work typically involves HDD still) 3. Where local network transfers are impeded by the network speed the transferring itself isn't a frequent enough and blocking thing that people feel they need to fix it... they just go make a cup of tea once or twice a day 4. There are a…

Another factor: data centres moved to fiber. And fiber is less physically robust and not great for desktop connections or plugging in to a laptop. 10GBASE-T exists, but it turns out pushing 10gbit/s over 100m of twisted pair requires chips that are hot and power hungry. Again, not great for desktops or laptops. And because it’s not used in data centres, there are no economies of scale or trickle down effects. Gigabit…

>requires chips that are hot and power hungry.

That is finally improving. The technology improvement meant we get less than 5W per port on 10Gbps. Cost will need to come down though.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#214

Post by m463 »

kortilla wrote: post #108
jiggawatts wrote: post #80

Some people are saying that they don't feel the need for > 1 Gbps in a home network. As a counter-point, I'm regularly limited by 1 Gbps PHY limits. During the 2 years of the pandemic I've been working from home with gigabit Internet. Why gigabit? Because that's the "speed limit" of the Ethernet PHY in the fibre broadband box, and also my laptop's ethernet port. My laptop can write to disk at multiple GB per second,…

A lot of that sounds pretty incredibly wasteful and I don’t think it should be something to strive for more of. Docker images are layered for a reason. If you’re having to download multi gigabyte docker layers multiple times, something has gone very wrong. Azure charges (like the other major cloud providers) by egress data. I feel bad for whoever is paying the bill for 20gbps going out. In general, people in ML shoul…

I also recall the saying "you can't save yourself rich"

There are some times when your thinking/workflow is constrained by your environment, sometimes significantly.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#215

Post by aidenn0 »

NavinF wrote: post #90
erik wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another factor: data centres moved to fiber. And fiber is less physically robust and not great for desktop connections or plugging in to a laptop. 10GBASE-T exists, but it turns out pushing 10gbit/s over 100m of twisted pair requires chips that are hot and power hungry. Again, not great for desktops or laptops. And because it’s not used in data centres, there are no economies of scale or trickle down effects. Gigabit…

> fiber is less physically robust Maybe this used to be the case long ago, but I don’t think it’s true today. Personally I’m pretty rough with fiber (having slammed cabinet doors on fiber, looped fiber around posts with a low bend radius, left the ends exposed to dust, etc) and had no issues within a data center. Can’t say the same for copper. Even the cheapest 10km optics have more margin when your link is only 50m.…

The robustness gap has narrowed (not just with better fiber; some cat-6 STP is surprisingly fragile compared to old cat 5), but I think copper is still more robust for short runs where there will be many insertions and removals.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#216

Post by ksec »

zinekeller wrote: post #104
salamandersauce wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2.5Gb ethernet seems to be starting to trickle out at least. It's becoming a more common thing on desktop motherboards. Doesn't seem like there is a lot of 2.5Gb routers yet though.

Thank Intel for single-handedly changing the 2.5Gbps landscape by integrating 2.5Gb Ethernet on their chipsets, allowing no-brainer OEM integration. Unfortunately, unless ISP router OEMs (Nokia, Zyxel, Huawei et al.) do their part (the reason being that very few people actually bothers to buy a separate router), we will not see the economies of scale necessary to fully finish 2.5Gb Ethernet.

But is kind of sad they skip 5Gbps. I thought it was the best compromise for consumer between 1 and 10 Gbps Ethernet.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#217

Post by secure »

qwertyuiop_ wrote: post #198
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint: I had 10G networking and went back to 1G last time I reorganized. Haven’t really missed the 10G for now . I ditched the 10G because the 10G switch was hot and noisy and had a fan, whereas my 1G equipment was silent and low power. This could be overcome by putting the switch in another room, obviously, but I haven’t missed it enough to go through the trouble yet. > During the 2 years of the pandemic…

I am on FIOS 1G home fiber, how does one get 10G ? Do they have run a line from the node or street ?

If your provider offers 10 Gbit/s, you only need to change the fiber optics modules at either end of the connection. The same lines can be used, no need to run anything extra.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#218

Post by Zandikar »

jiggawatts wrote: post #80

Some people are saying that they don't feel the need for > 1 Gbps in a home network. As a counter-point, I'm regularly limited by 1 Gbps PHY limits. During the 2 years of the pandemic I've been working from home with gigabit Internet. Why gigabit? Because that's the "speed limit" of the Ethernet PHY in the fibre broadband box, and also my laptop's ethernet port. My laptop can write to disk at multiple GB per second,…

I've been ranting about this for a while tbh. Network interfaces used to be one of the fastest interfaces on a computer. Now they're one of if not the slowest save for USB2 or bluetooth.

1GbE networking is one of the slowest interfaces on modern computers.

- The slowest USB3 spec is 5Gbps. USB3 is a mess, but you can easily far exceed 1Gbps with the absolute worst of it.

- The current fastest USB spec is USB4, and is at least 20Gbps, and sometimes 40Gbps

- Thunderbolt/Lightning both push 10's of gigabits depending on spec

- 802.11ac ("Wifi 5"/"Wave 2") is capable of Gigabit speed, and 802.11ax ("Wifi 6") easily exceeds 1Gbps

- Even Cellular connections can exceed 1Gbps these days with 5G, though admittedly realistically you're looking at 100Mbs-1000Mbps

- Individual SAS/SATA rotational drive easily push passed 1Gbps in seq workloads

- Individual SAS/SATA SSD's often push 3Gbps, and SATA itself supports up to 6Gbps, with SAS up to 12Gbps.

- PCIe NVMe in it's slowest spec (Gen3 at 2 lanes) is still 16Gbps, most typically running at up to 32Gbps at Gen3 x4

- PCIe5 consumer devices have launched (Gen5x4 lane NVMe is 128Gbps)

- PCIe6 is around the corner for enterprise

To add insult to injury, in the consumer space they're trying to tout 2.5GbE as some sort of premium new NIC, despite it replacing 10GbE in the premium NIC space from several years ago (eg Asus X99-E-10G-WS). It's maddening. 10Gbase-T, 10Gbe, and Cat6a has been around for well over a decade (to say nothing of SFP+ 10G). Granted they're starting to reposition 2.5GbE as the new 1GbE, which is far more sensible, but still positions your NIC as one of your slowest interfaces

1GbE is the limiting factor to speeds these days, with internal storage/devices and nearly all alternative interfaces vastly outspeeding 1GbE. Even cheap external SATA SSD's and a common usb3 cable can greatly exceed your 1GbE network speed. If you have multiple devices, and want to transfer data between them, a network cable is supposed to be the superior choice. Not Wifi, Not USB, but a network cable over the local network. But it's actually much faster to plug a drive into one device with USB, transfer the data, unplug, plug into the other device, transfer again, than to use a standard 1GbE network interface. Shameful. Just because your WAN interface is likely 1Gbps or less doesn't mean there isn't a use at the prosumer level for >1Gbps network connections for use at the LAN level.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#219

Post by csdvrx »

omgtehlion wrote: post #210
csdvrx wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you recommend a switch and some NICs, along with a thunderbolt adapter?

Switches: when I last looked, there were cheap mikrotik switches and tp-link, if you want to buy new. Otherwise search on eBay/craigslist/etc. Network cards: intel, mellanox, solarflare. Intel has a lot of drivers for all OSes, mellanox is most stable electrically (you can provide it with separate power, no need for fancy adapters, just plug any 12v in), solarflare is cheapest on ebay if you buy 2-3-generations old c…

How much did you pay when your tb3-to-nvme was on sale? It's not an urgent purchase :)

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#220

Post by sigstoat »

liketochill wrote: post #208
sigstoat wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And fiber is less physically robust and not great for desktop connections i buy armored multimode patch cables for, i dunno, 10 or 20% more per unit length, and they seem indestructible in my residential short-distance use cases. > Gigabit Ethernet and wifi being “good enough” i think this explains it all. when the average user prefers wireless to wired gigabit, we know how much bandwidth they actually need, and it…

It takes special connectors to survive being disconnected and reconnected daily and cables left disconnected with out the risk of an accidental laser eye surgery

> It takes special connectors to survive being disconnected and reconnected daily

i don't know what you're using, but the LC/LC connectors i use seem pretty durable, and the springy bit that wears out can be replaced. the SFP+ modules are all metal; i am unwilling to believe they can wear out.

> and cables left disconnected with out the risk of an accidental laser eye surgery

single mode, which isn't human-visible, is of concern but the multimode (which i mentioned using) isn't any worse than a cheap laser pointer. it isn't strong, and you can see it.

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