Tangentially related to this, one of my hobbies is to explore old long abandoned ghost towns and mining camps in the Southwest US. It is really impressive how well many of these structures have held up in harsh climates. One of my favorite parts is seeing how repairs were improvised in the wilderness using whatever supplies happened to be available. The standard approach to trash back then was to throw it in a pile n…
How are Rome's monuments still standing?
211–218 of 218 posts
Re: How are Rome's monuments still standing?
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was collecting some bottles and after trying 5 grocery stores who all told me they don't accept bottle returns (happy to collect the "deposit fee" though!) I gave up and threw them away in the regular recycling bin.
In Germany you must accept returns and give back the deposit if you sell bottles or cans that have the deposit attached.
Re: How are Rome's monuments still standing?
#213Tangentially related to this, one of my hobbies is to explore old long abandoned ghost towns and mining camps in the Southwest US. It is really impressive how well many of these structures have held up in harsh climates. One of my favorite parts is seeing how repairs were improvised in the wilderness using whatever supplies happened to be available. The standard approach to trash back then was to throw it in a pile n…
> A modern beer bottle looks paper thin compared to one a century old. I wonder if that is due to how much smoother transportation is now.
Re: How are Rome's monuments still standing?
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Jonathan Blow makes a bunch of great points about our simplified view of ancient people, versus the reality of their complex achievements which could only be brought about by lots of ingenuity and iterations. https://youtu.be/pW-SOdj4Kkk
He started off well with the history of civilization collapse but then he got the heart of his presentation with the misguided idea that modern software is more broken recently. He showed some incomprehensible bugs in Visual Studio. All I have to say is that on Windows the Blue Screen of Death was a prominent problem for many years. On the original MacOS that was non-preemptive multitasking and no memory hardware pro…
Their business model was (and to a degree still is) predicated on getting people used to everything having bugs, and not complaining or, more importantly, returning it for a refund, angrily. They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, and now everything else works almost as badly.
Re: How are Rome's monuments still standing?
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Besides the theaters and aqueducts there are basically none which were not later turned into churches I am from Rome, live in Rome, in front of the Forum of Augustus ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_of_Augustus ), there's a large number of Roman buildings that never became churches. Trust me, the Domus Aurea was never a church, Villa Adriana has never been a church,they are both UNESCO's World Heritage Sites…
Yes there are plenty of relatively well preserved Roman ruins, neither Hadrian's Villa or Domus Aurea had survived intact. I'm not denying that Roman construction techniques were advanced, but it's not like we have much to compare them against. Sure, there aren't as many well preserved Etruscan or Greek ruins in Italy, but they preceded the Romans, had way less resources and not as advanced technology. And the same h…
Thanks for the question.
It would be a very long discussion to have in details, starting from the fact that even in ancient Rome there was some culture of preservation, like the restoration of 82 temples in the programs of Augustus (see “Preservation Practices in Ancient and Medieval Rome”), but it wasn't until 15th century that a real program of preservation and protection of old buildings was created by the papacy.
Rome was, more than any other city of its times, subject to invasions and destruction of its ancient monuments, used as construction material for new buildings and churches. The need for churches was actually more a detriment than a a blessing.
The capital was moved to Constantinople more than a century before the sack of Rome and the fall of the western Roman empire, its monuments, its marbles, its travertine, its bricks, have been for more than a millennium up for grabs, by many conquerors.
In Greek cities, for example, there were no monuments to steal from, because they had been ruins for centuries already, Rome almost disappeared during the middle ages and, but the need for materials and the sacks never stopped, making new buildings, every time larger and richer, was the new normal, it was probably the most prolific period in history.
The fact that so many Roman buildings survived despite most of the original material was removed and used somewhere else, it's kinda miraculous.
Take for example two great historical figures: Alexander the great and Genghis Khan, their empires were immense, some of the largest in history, but buildings of their era are virtually non existent.
It wasn't their strongest trait, they were not builders.
Compare them to the Mesopotamians or the Egyptians and it becomes easier to see the difference.
Greeks influenced a lot both Etruscan and Romans, but it was more of a style.
Advanced construction techniques in Etruscan region were brought directly by Greek natives, but only the most privileged classes built proper houses, the rest of the population was living in villages made by tents or wooden shelters.
That's why very few of them survived.
Re: How are Rome's monuments still standing?
#216TL;DR: their concrete was different. > Roman concrete, on the other hand, is a simpler mix of quicklime made from baking and crushing limestone rocks and, most importantly, volcanic rock aggregates of various types, which were abundant in the region surrounding Rome. In contrast to the aggregates used in modern concrete, these volcanic materials used by the Romans are highly reactive and the resulting concrete remain…
We use reinforced concrete, concrete with steel bars inside. This allows us to built really thin and strong concrete bridges, balconies, roofs, etc. But the steel rusts after a couple of decades. Rusted steel is marginally larger than new steel. So when the steel bars expand by rusting, it pushes against the concrete from the inside, causing cracks. Then lots of water can get in it rusts faster. Eventually chunks of…
Or, is there any promising technology that allows to use steel bars that have some space inside, so that when they rust, they don't break the concrete?
Re: How are Rome's monuments still standing?
#217Re: How are Rome's monuments still standing?
#218Tangentially related to this, one of my hobbies is to explore old long abandoned ghost towns and mining camps in the Southwest US. It is really impressive how well many of these structures have held up in harsh climates. One of my favorite parts is seeing how repairs were improvised in the wilderness using whatever supplies happened to be available. The standard approach to trash back then was to throw it in a pile n…
Are there really sites undisturbed enough for you to see how they did repairs or disposed of their trash? That sounds amazing. SW-America is definitely on my bucket list and I love ghost towns. In Western Europe it's hard to find any abandoned place older than a couple of years that's preserved well. I guess it's because the next city is never very far and there's always uncultured idiots whose idea of fun it is to v…