Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#211

Post by calsy » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 8:30 AM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #209

calsy wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It not being censored. Simply creating an app doesn't afford you the privilege of hosting on the app store.

Without any other way to load the app on the device, it is de facto censorship.

A device must have an option for its security to be exploited by allowing the installation of a tracking app that violates every aspect of users privacy, intended to be used by minors, with the express purpose of transferring explicit material to a third party?

If a device does not provide this option for compromised security, it is by default censorship.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#212

Post by nanobyte » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 8:47 AM UTC

bmurphy1976 wrote: post #181

p1necone wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just teaching your kids that they can't trust you with anything. They'll probably borrow old devices from friends and keep them hidden anyway. And don't be surprised when they hide parties, alcohol etc from you, even when they might need your help. You might think you're doing something positive here - but all you're doing is ensuring that your kids will forever treat you as an adversary. Don't be surprised wh…

Wow, you assume a lot yet you know absolutely squat about my family. If you want to ask questions about how it works, how we use it, and how it's benefited my family I'm more than happy to discuss it.

One would be wise to heed p1necone's comment. Based on friends and general life experience, this is 100% the case. I cannot even fathom growing up with parents having such oversight--that's basically a guaranteed recipe for stunted personal growth and/or subversion and lifelong distrust; not to mention an extreme invasion of privacy.

What happens if one's kid's are gay? Or interested in myriad other topics? Should a parent have 100% visibility and supervision over such things?

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#213

Post by qubitcoder » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

FunHearing3443 wrote: post #192

easrng wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the person you were replying to, but yes. That would be an extreme breach of trust and especially with the level of detail that's being collected here, effectively removing all privacy, it's just not ok. This could have disastrous consequences for ex. closeted LGBTQ+ youth with unsupportive parents who could kick them out of the house or worse if they found out.

There's nothing immoral about it if the parent is up front with the child, the child knows the device is monitored. If they don't want to be monitored, then they don't get the device. I know for a fact once my kids are older not a packet will leave my house without getting snooped at least by a parent controls filter. I'm sure they'll find ways around it (as I did as a technical child) but kids need to be protected f…

The position being put forth here is frankly rather horrific and abusive, and on multiple levels. Normally I'd aim to provide a more substantive response, but I'm not even sure where to begin.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#214

Post by nanobyte » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 9:01 AM UTC

jtbayly wrote: post #155

mimimi31 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a big qualitative difference between having a Youtube Kids profile and filtering access to certain content versus completely negating a child's digital privacy like this. It actually reminds me of that one Black Mirror episode[1]. Ethically, I agree with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child[2], which states in Article 16: >No child shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with…

So, to be clear, the government can keep tabs on what my child watches. Google can keep track of exactly what my child watches. Twitter can filter based on its morals, what my child can see and share, as well as monitor everything they read and watch and say. But I, as the parent that is actually responsible for the child (and may face lawsuits if I don't) am not allowed to do any of that. Got it.

Do you have any evidence for those assertions? Respectfully, this seems like a strained analogy; I'm not sure how the government factors into this.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#215

Post by nyuszika7h » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

jtbayly wrote: post #155

mimimi31 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a big qualitative difference between having a Youtube Kids profile and filtering access to certain content versus completely negating a child's digital privacy like this. It actually reminds me of that one Black Mirror episode[1]. Ethically, I agree with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child[2], which states in Article 16: >No child shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with…

So, to be clear, the government can keep tabs on what my child watches. Google can keep track of exactly what my child watches. Twitter can filter based on its morals, what my child can see and share, as well as monitor everything they read and watch and say. But I, as the parent that is actually responsible for the child (and may face lawsuits if I don't) am not allowed to do any of that. Got it.

Governments and companies like Google/Twitter definitely have some shady tracking practices, sometimes even tracking between different apps and websites, but it's still nowhere near as invasive as taking a screenshot of every single thing that happens on your child's phone.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#216

Post by nerdjon » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

p1necone wrote: post #171

chris_wot wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voluntarily using it. Not sure what is not benign about this.

A relationship that involves one partner snooping on the others phone like this is not a healthy relationship. If trust is eroded to that level the solution is counseling, separation or divorce. Not 24/7 surveillance - that's insane. Not to mention people in abusive relationships who might be coerced into using this. Just because they're aware it's on their phone doesn't mean it isn't being used to control them.

I do think if and only if a partner actually thought they had a problem and needed an app like this to help them through that problem, then it is fine.

I mean you should feel safe enough to come to your partner for help and voluntarily do something like this.

But generally I agree with what you are saying and it is very worrysome. Which is my entire issue with this app. Looking at the marketing it is not focused on the partner looking for help, it is giving praising reviews from the spouses and parents violating their "loved ones" (purposefully put in quotes if you deem something like this necessary) privacy.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#217

Post by nerdjon » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

nanobyte wrote: post #212

bmurphy1976 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you assume a lot yet you know absolutely squat about my family. If you want to ask questions about how it works, how we use it, and how it's benefited my family I'm more than happy to discuss it.

One would be wise to heed p1necone's comment. Based on friends and general life experience, this is 100% the case. I cannot even fathom growing up with parents having such oversight--that's basically a guaranteed recipe for stunted personal growth and/or subversion and lifelong distrust; not to mention an extreme invasion of privacy. What happens if one's kid's are gay? Or interested in myriad other topics? Should a…

I do think there is some room for parental control apps, at least at a very young age (I see little reason someone under 13ish should be able to view porn).

But... they need to have their limits. A parent should not know every single thing going on with their child. Especially as their child is figuring out their own identity and later transitioning into adulthood.

I know there was once (yay landlines) that I caught my parents listening in on a call I was on... It broke my trust with them completely. I no longer felt safety from my own parents, to be honest it made me feel like a hostage in my young brain. From then on I did everything in my power to hide things further from them (and being very technical this was not hard).

You need your child to feel comfortable enough to come to you when they need something, not for you to come to them because you saw something that should have been private.

Basic child blocks? Thats fine up to a certain age

Time limits? Of course, that is your prerogative.

But knowing every single thing that is done on what should be a very personal device... that is problematic.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#218

Post by nerdjon » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

camhart wrote: post #144

nerdjon wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then at least what the OP is saying here and what the marketing said would align. But at this time, there is one story of what this app does here (hacker news) and a completely different story from what is being told on the website and marketing. The other apps that they are saying had no issues with approval, follow the story that is being told here. I don't think it changes the problematic nature of the app. But th…

https://web.archive.org/web/20190424203239/https://truple.io... is the landing page when the original version of the app was submitted for notarization. Since you're digging into the ad copy, we might as well be looking at the appropriate website. It's not two stories... I include customer reviews on my landing page that show spouses, individuals, and parents feedback because all benefit from it. The Google Play app…

I am deeply concerned by the mind games you are playing here.

It is 100% 2 stories. Over and over again here you are saying "personal accountability" or similar. Which on paper is fine. If you really truly voluntarily want to do this... great!

But do you not understand while personal accountability fine... your marketing is calling out spouses and parents reviews! Nothing about either of those being there says personal accountability. if you truly actually believed in personal accountability you could only show reviews from them, not from others!

To clarify. If my spouse is the one that thinks that this app "saved my marriage" as your reviews really like to say. There is something... very very wrong. If I feel the need to review it because I felt like I needed help. That is fine! Do you see the difference?!?

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#219

Post by bborud » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

FunHearing3443 wrote: post #196

agentdrtran wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The business in this case is from a religious extremist and this kind of software is very frequently used without the user's consent.

That is a frankly bigoted statement and one I'm use to seeing more on Reddit than HN. It is designed to be used voluntarily, or as parental controls for children. This is not $evilTechCompany coming to suck up all of your data.

I don't know if this person is an extremist. Religious or otherwise. Nor do I know anything about the organization they represent. But both in labeling someone an extremist, and in claiming that said label is bigoted, both parties owe the reader context which hasn't really been provided. So you both kind of accomplished nothing here.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#220

Post by bborud » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

NationalPark wrote: post #131

bborud wrote: post #37

This is the main reason why I am not interested in being an app developer. Your business is in the hands of someone who can cut you off and get away with not even giving you the time of day. Not worth the risk. (That being said: I'm not sure I would have approved an app like yours since it is designed to invade privacy)

Isn't that all electronic businesses? I don't think anyone except maybe netflix actually controls their entire networking infrastructure. CDNs and cloud computing businesses make arbitrary decisions all the time. Payment processors, publishers..

To a greater or lesser degree yes, but there are things you can do to safeguard your business.

I don't think the biggest risk is really your hosting environment, but domain names. That's the one link in the chain that can really make life miserable if you were to lose your domain name. Which in effect is your identity. You can find replacement service providers for hosting. It may take you a bit of time to move things, but there isn't a lack of choice. It is harder to deal with losing a domain name that is essentially your brand.

However, I know several businesses whose product only runs on AWS and would need a ground-up rewrite to run anywhere else. Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is exceptionally poor risk management and if I were to find myself in this situation I'd have nobody else to blame but myself.

And this is transitive: if you are a customer of a product that is tied 100% to a single infrastructure provider and they are critical to your business, you must have a contingency plan in case they get into trouble.