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Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

reuters.com

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Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#211

Post by azth »

chernevik wrote: post #85
criddell wrote: post #38

At some point I wonder if health insurers will start denying claims related to the treatment of COVID infections if the person is eligible for the vaccine but has refused to get one? On TV today I saw that Kroger employees don't get sick day pay if they are off because of COVID unless they have been vaccinated (and I would assume there's a medical exemption).

By that logic insurers could deny claims related to obesity, or risky sexual behavior. Would you approve of that?

Let's see them deny coverage for HIV treatment for the homosexuals.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#212

Post by azth »

radnor wrote: post #132
chernevik wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic insurers could deny claims related to obesity, or risky sexual behavior. Would you approve of that?

It is not possible to spread obesity or risky sexual behavior to others.

Not true. It's trivial to spread immorality and normalize it which would lead to risky sexual behavior. We're literally living through it now. Just look at how things slid in the past 100 years on that front.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#213

Post by vlovich123 »

realreality wrote: post #106
vlovich123 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how infectious diseases work. You can be getting other people sick. Vaccines aren’t 100% effective so prolonged exposure in indoor spaces increases chances. Some people also are immuno compromised and can’t be vaccinated so you’d be putting them at risk too. Are you going to start paying for their sick time too and signing away that you’re personally liable for deaths?

Are immunocompromised people exempt from the mandate? If they're working next to anybody, vaccinated or not, they're at risk of getting sick. New rule: every googler who works near immunocompromised coworkers has to wear a mask.

The rule is likely that you have to keep wearing a mask indoors regardless of your vaccination status.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#214

Post by vlovich123 »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #159
vlovich123 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how infectious diseases work. You can be getting other people sick. Vaccines aren’t 100% effective so prolonged exposure in indoor spaces increases chances. Some people also are immuno compromised and can’t be vaccinated so you’d be putting them at risk too. Are you going to start paying for their sick time too and signing away that you’re personally liable for deaths?

> That’s not how infectious diseases work. You can be getting other people sick. That's not how vaccines against COVID-19 work. They diminish the risk of severe illness and death, not transmission rates.

I keep hearing this in this thread but I don’t follow.

> Based on evidence from clinical trials, in people ages 18 years and older, the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.

If you’re prevent infection, aren’t you effectively reducing the R0 by definition? How is the vaccine making it harder to infect not reduce transmission rates?

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#215

Post by titzer »

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #188
titzer wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I have never witnessed a mythical naked shopping mall, just some outdoor parks and gardens out away from most other people where only the clued-in would go. It is not ok to go out naked in public!

The ones I mean are more like camp sites. But I haven't been there myself. Isn't "nudist camp" also a thing in the US?

My reference for nudism is various parts of the Isar and Englisch Garten in Munich. In the US, nudist sites aren't really a thing, certainly not in any major city.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#216

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

vlovich123 wrote: post #214
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s not how infectious diseases work. You can be getting other people sick. That's not how vaccines against COVID-19 work. They diminish the risk of severe illness and death, not transmission rates.

I keep hearing this in this thread but I don’t follow. > Based on evidence from clinical trials, in people ages 18 years and older, the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected. If you’re prevent infection, aren’t you effectively reducing the R0 by definition? How is the vaccine…

Yes, these are the original data from clinical studies. Now, in real life, a few months later the efficiency has dwindled considerably [0]:

> Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear.

[0] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#217

Post by ben_w »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #199
ben_w wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw less than half that number — 8099 — on the VAERS site. And this is for a disease which has killed 821,335 Americans after infecting 51 million. So if it’s absolutely perfectly safe and there is a roughly 5% chance of getting infected with Covid while waiting for the vaccine to take effect, it would look like this.

>> 8099 Not sure where you get that number. Also, the numbers for VAERS entry are very probably not even in the ballpark of all injuries because doctors don't often advertise VAERS or even enter patient data there. Why would they, it's basically extra work they don't get paid for. https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/12/11/vaers-summary-for-covi... >> ...killed 821,33 Americans... I had a family friend that shot himself i…

> Not sure where you get that number.

https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html

Like I said, the VAERS site.

> The response to Covid and vaccine insanity has been ultra overblown.

Last year the UK ran short of mortuaries and body bags.

On several occasions, hospitals have been unable to meet demand in various different ways, from beds (meaning staff for them rather than literally beds), to oxygen.

> I had a family friend that shot himself in a hunting accident. Drove himself to the hospital bleeding, didn't make it 24 hours. Tested positive for Covid. Labeled covid death.

My condolences.

But it works both ways: If he’d had a recent vaccine instead of a covid infection, that would be listed on VAERS as correlated to the vaccine, from what I gather.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#218

Post by disambiguation »

xiphias2 wrote: post #151

Intelligent adults generally get vaccinated (unless they have a preexisting medical condition), so I can imagine that Googlers don't have problem with saying goodbye to the few antivaxx colleagues.

I think we can say, at a minimum, compliant adults get the vaccine.

Intelligent or otherwise, why would Google or any company want to retain anti-authoritarian staff?

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#219

Post by Chris2048 »

CabSauce wrote: post #28
nsxwolf wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe in the rights of private companies to do just anything they want to workers. Most people don't - look at the popularity of indoor smoking bans. Most also agree a private business shouldn't be allowed to deny employment or service based on race. There are many, many such examples.

Are you really claiming an indoor smoking ban is a counter example to a vaccine mandiate? That's some interesting logic.

It was a counter to the argument of corporate autonomy. The "counter example" you talk about is about the power of government.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#220

Post by devmunchies »

asoneth wrote: post #161

I'm definitely pro-vaccine, but I'm also concerned about the long-term impact of alienating whole swaths of the country with policies like these. Perhaps there are less onerous policies that would be similarly effective? To address the risk of transmission for in-person employees, would a combination of masking and testing be similarly effective at minimizing office outbreaks? As for the increase in a company's healt…

> let health insurance companies consider vaccination status when calculating an individual's health insurance premiums

If I'm in my late 20s or early 30s and in great shape and eat healthy, a vaccine is not going to make a difference in personal risk. If anything, vaccine rates should be used by a company when getting health insurance benefits for the org as a whole.

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