How to run a small social network site for your friends • Hacker News Board

Re: How to run a small social network site for your friends

#211

Post by neopub » Fri, Dec 10, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

grishka wrote: post #193

the_other wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't all that be modelled with keys/signing? Can you elaborate more on the risks around automated key management?

> Can't all that be modelled with keys/signing? Probably? I don't know. The problem is that it gets really complicated really fast. When someone adds a friend, how do you grant that new friend access to their older friends-only posts? How do you revoke that access, and access to any future posts, when they unfriend someone? > Can you elaborate more on the risks around automated key management? The biggest problem for…

I've been tinkering around with these ideas at https://github.com/neopub/neopub (demo at https://neopub.pages.dev).

It runs entirely in the browser, using the Web Crypto API. For key management, I store the user's private keys in the browser's password manager, and friend keys in IndexedDB, backed up to the user's host in a client-side encrypted blob.

> When someone adds a friend, how do you grant that new friend access to their older friends-only posts? How do you revoke that access, and access to any future posts, when they unfriend someone?

My project publishes an encrypted post as one file, then 1 keyfile for each of your friends to unlock that post. When you unfriend someone, you can just delete all their keyfiles and cease generating them for future posts.

Re: How to run a small social network site for your friends

#212

Post by BugWatch » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 12:40 AM UTC

jimmygrapes wrote: post #195

jimmygrapes wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not affiliated nor currently active, but I want to plug Aether for its moderation and discovery systems. I wish it wasn't a dedicated app, but that's also part of what makes it tick, for now. Trigger warning: there is a blockchain element to it; one of the very few useful cases for it, imo.

Probably should have added a link if I'm gonna shill: https://getaether.net/

I like the idea of if, but the ephemerality of it is a biggest-killer there is for myself personaly. I think additional (or better as a default) version would be that all your posts are automatically hidden, unless chosen otherwise, and that the post retention policy at the time of posting of each reply be clearly indicated as well.

I cannot stand the apps and systems that, when blocking, just totally purge and puff the conversion out of existence, not just for the block-er, but the block-ed. Both sides have the right to their memories! Maybe Y poured their soul there, and they want to continue having access to those moments; X does not get to have ultimate control over that.

If X or Y want to block, then the blocking action should just lock and prevent further replies. (And there's definitely way more nuance possible here that I will be getting into here.)

The "nuclear" version would be to hide the blocker's part of conversation of which I also extremely disagree: everyone needs to learn, experience consequences, and evervigilantly practice to stand behind one's words — but those should always be remarkated with he fact that the stances, feelings, opinions expressed then should be considered ephemeral in an ever-evolving state, and not etched in stone. (And even add a short revision note tag function: "This is no longer considered valid, more info here / ask me more".

And while I have presented this example here as a private conversation between two people, my thoughts on the group conversations are very much aligned to these.

However, I am mainly of the opinion that block as a function should he reserved for the gravest of offences, and that people should (continue to) learn to settle their differences of opinion peacefully and as amicably as possible. Blocking willy-nilly does the exact opposite of it, and just builds the ever-more-impenetrable echo chamber(s) of samethink.

Re: How to run a small social network site for your friends

#213

Post by voakbasda » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 4:11 AM UTC

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #203

voakbasda wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If my US-based sites get a GPDR complaint, GeoIP blocks will go up and the entire EU can suck a lemon.

Or just say, “sure fine us another €40million. How do you plan to make us pay?”

I have no idea of the status of potential treaties that cover these matters. If I start getting harassed, it’s much easier and safer to block them, rather than escalating things in a direction that could end up in extradition. I would not trust the US government to protect me.

But I like your sentiment.

Re: How to run a small social network site for your friends

#214

Post by nhumrich » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #129

nhumrich wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh. I personally hate signal groups. If you ever lose your phone, you loose all history. The desktop app works, but won't show any history. I know in signals eyes this is intentional, but it's also silly. I had access to all that information, it's not any less safe on a new device that I have to prove I own.

You don't have a logged history of all of your in-person chats with your friend groups, either.

Neither does the other person, though. With signal, you lose history, but anyone who hasn't changed devices, doesn't.

Re: How to run a small social network site for your friends

#215

Post by mattbk1 » Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

bencollier49 wrote: post #36

egypturnash wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience as a Mastodon admin is that Pleroma is popular among people with anime girl avatars who like to post swastikas, ethnic slurs, and right-wing propaganda.

Why's that then?

Pleorma is easier to install and less resource-hungry, so the bar for setting up an instance is lower.

Re: How to run a small social network site for your friends

#216

Post by rambambram » Sun, Dec 12, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

godshatter wrote: post #210

rambambram wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also true for me. I'm building something like that, where RSS feeds and RSS readers come together on a small personal website. Not necessarily a group chat or forum, more like a microblog/timeline/webring thing. A lot of individual websites, connected by the technology of modern and traditional internet. Question: Would the absence of a forum (or some sort of group chat) be a deal breaker for you?

I like the idea of such a thing, if I'm understanding it. A place to write your thoughts and share them with others while being able to see their contributions? I miss the old geocities sites, even as bad as they looked, because you could create what you want and make it available to others and I miss the old webrings where you could discover new things random people created. I am interested in a small forum ability…

Good to hear. My ideas for such a thing are based on the same sentiment; the internet as it used to be, and should be (?). I agree that some interactive parts like a forum, or even nested comments like here on HN, are necessary. That's what really makes it a two way street. Me having a website and you having a website (and us subscribing to each other's feed) is more like two one way streets.

A webring is also a feature I really like. Good for related - but still random - discovery.

Re: How to run a small social network site for your friends

#217

Post by pavel_lishin » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #91

deanc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to be the commenter that goes on and on about the negative impact Facebook is having across the world, as this is disruptive to genuine arguments. To give a clear counterpoint to the idea of using Facebook groups - forums had anonymity. You could be a different version of yourself - for better or worse. It's not possible to do that on Facebook without accountability.

> It's not possible to do that on Facebook without accountability. Sure it is. Our local town Facebook groups have a wide variety of clear sockpuppet accounts. Facebook's detection and processes for this are laughably bad; quite a few people have reported the "Count von Brokenhymen" style ones to no avail.

> Facebook's detection and processes for this are laughably bad

Both for false positives and false negatives. I had to register an account to participate in some local town stuff, and my account got locked every week, regular as clockwork.

Re: How to run a small social network site for your friends

#218

Post by bertil » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

DarylZero wrote: post #88

bertil wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people criticise the Growth efforts are social media company —and they tend to do some shady things— but their work leads to large groups of people being active and findable on the same platform. That’s hard, requires a lot of effort and in genuinely valuable. If people included that in discussions about whether the bad habits was worth it, we could have more meaningful conversation about the role of social…

It's only hard because it's zero sum competition against others doing the same. It seems to happen quite naturally.

No, it’s hard because it involves imagining a lot of ways that potential users are blocked, prioritising them, explain the product and simplify it. I’ve work for a dozen social media company and none saw itself as a zero-sum game.