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Is Web3 Bullshit?

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Re: Is Web3 Bullshit?

#211

I think this is a pretty astute analysis/taxonomy of analysis. I'm interested in read/study more about: "the broad political-economic or cultural questions: who is participating in, sponsoring, and getting rich off of web3 technologies? What is the particular political or economic dynamic that makes the blockchain attractive? Given this, what will it be used for?", or "the culture, values, and especially the backers…

> I'm interested in read/study more about: "the broad political-economic or cultural questions: who is participating in, sponsoring, and getting rich off of web3 technologies?

This is the key question that gets overlooked in these discussions.

Web3 is a vague term, but it’s difficult to get straight answers about who’s using Web3 technologies because most of the Web3 narrative refers to hypothetical future technologies.

But even though these hypothetical future Web3 products don’t exist yet or aren’t actually useful in their current form, there are numerous ways to buy their tokens in preparation for their imagined future usefulness.

More specifically: These projects will sell you arbitrary tokens now that supposedly will become more valuable in the future when other future people actually want to use the service. As an early adopter, you will be well positioned to sell your tokens to them at a huge markup!

The obvious question is: Why does every new service need a new, unique token to pay for it? Why must these products built on chains like Ethereum go out of their way to not use Ethereum as their payment method? The reason is that they can’t generate huge speculative profits unless they introduce arbitrary new tokens, so of course they must play the new token game.

But now the profit comes not from building an actual usable service, but from selling tokens for hypothetical future services. In fact, even the developers understand this and will often jump from one new project to the next, capitalizing on token speculation instead of actually finishing anything because that’s where the money is.

If any of the web3 projects want to be taken seriously, they need to stop introducing new arbitrary tokens and just use the existing infrastructure and coins. Build an actual service, not a new currency with a grand idea of a future Web3 service attached to it.

Re: Is Web3 Bullshit?

#212

It saddens me that they chose "web3" for the latest crypto pyramid scheme. Call it what you want, but please don't sully the web with your plat du jour crypto antics. Also for what it is worth, the web has been decentralised from the very start, I don't see what the fuss is about apart from just everyone getting rich selling the next hot coin/token/whatever.

I agree that cryptocurrency is a pyramid scheme, but the web is incredibly centralized. The whole point of DNS is to normalize an easy to remember name to an address so that everyone can access that same address easily. That is almost the purest essence of centralization. In practice if you want to share family photos with your family do you upload those photos to a third party like a social media site or a cloud pro…

You can host a server in your bedroom and share photos with grandma by sending her a hyperlink. That vision is not “dead”; there are many companies that provide hardware + software solutions to do this with a few clicks (e.g. Synology, QNAP, others).

Re: Is Web3 Bullshit?

#213
For awhile I insisted that all cryptocurrencies were bullshit and also Ponzi schemes, but given how many people take pleasure in buying them, selling them, and talking about them, I've come round to viewing them as a kind of in-game currency, with the game being a bit like those role-playing games that you play in your neighborhood while interacting with the real world. Anyone who grew up playing some variation of Assassin, especially the multi-day assassin games where you and your friends were still playing even when you went to school, and occasionally you had to tell teachers "I don't want to run this message to the main office because I think my friend Jim has a plan to get me if I go there." Much laughter.

Cryptocurrencies are starting to feel like that, a massive game that people take pleasure in. Nothing wrong with that. I've enjoyed real-world role-playing games, so I don't want to judge anyone else who is into such things.

Is it crazy to make a game currency your main form of investment? Maybe, but not automatically. You should, of course, invest in a diversified portfolio, but if you want to go long on this particular kind of game, it might pay off huge in the end.

I recall when I was a child me and my friends played Dungeons and Dragons -- long running campaigns that went on for years. One of the parents of my friends was upset by this and said it wasn't really a game because it didn't end and nobody could be declared a winner. I'm afraid my initial reaction to cryptocurrencies was similar, not seeing it as a game and rejecting it as not being real.

Of course, a big difference is that we insisted Dungeons and Dragons was a game, whereas the proponents of cryptocurrencies continue to insist that this is not a game. Some make some variation of the argument "there is so much money in this, it's too big to be a game" but that's an incorrect understanding of a game. There is a lot of money in esports, but we are still talking about games.

I've come round to accepting that cryptocurrencies are here to stay. I no longer consider them Ponzi schemes, I do regard them as a kind of play activity, one that deliberately tries to blue the line between play and non-play. To the extent that they enable certain kinds of criminal activity, they become real and can be used in non-play contexts. But mostly, this is a kind of play that some people find pleasure in, and there is no point in berating them for it.

Re: Is Web3 Bullshit?

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. As soon as I first heard about web3 I thought did I miss web2?

Web 2 was the idea of user generated content and commenting etc - digg/reddit, twitter, youtube etc have no content of their own (c.f. a news website or whatever) but everything there came from the users. Now it seems obvious and not worthy of a label, but at least at the time I guess it kinda captured the imagination and people imagined new/different ways to do things (I think it also coincided with a lot better too…

> Web 2 was the idea of user generated content and commenting etc

I keep hearing that, but that's been the thrust of the web from well before the term "web 2" ever left anyone's lips.

Re: Is Web3 Bullshit?

#216
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one was interested in it. :) I don’t see why stocks have tangible value and tokens used to interact with a network don’t. A stock is a vacuous unverifiable virtual piece of paper. At least if you have a Bitcoin or Ether you can prove what you have and know how many there are. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2017-02-17/dole-f... Most stocks don’t even have dividends any more so what else is a stock for o…

A stock represents ownership in a company that makes things. The value of the stock is relative to the performance of the company, not the amount of fools available to sell to. Crypto represents nothing and is backed by nothing other than sunk-cost.

"The value of the stock is relative to the performance of the company"

This is one of the big lies.

Re: Is Web3 Bullshit?

#217
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me a stock anyone is interested in that isn’t expected to go up and reward early adopters. “If the stock community wants to demonstrate that it isn't a giant Ponzi scheme, why not come up with a non-deflationary stock, which will not massively reward 'early adopters' at the expense of everyone else, in perpetuity?”

> Show me a stock anyone is interested in that isn’t expected to go up and reward early adopters. Eve though you framed your challenge as a "no true Scotsman" argument, history is packed with IPOs that tanked after the companies went public. https://money.howstuffworks.com/10-biggest-ipo-flops.htm Last year Uber dropped considerably when it's IPO got out of the gate. The main mistake of your argument is trying to com…

> Last year Uber dropped considerably when it's IPO got out of the gate.

Some exchanges or other cryptocurrency businesses fizzle out.

Bitcoin price gets hit on world stability news.

> The main mistake of your argument is trying to compare something with tangible value with schemes driven by speculation and fear of missing out.

People have no idea what TSLA is planning on doing besides "cool car", and ape into the stock because of FOMO. Address this?

Re: Is Web3 Bullshit?

#218
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that bitcoin is actually a good solution to the double spending problem in decentralized currencies.

Um, what double spending problem? Do you mean the problem that the US has with cashing paper checks?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-spending

Re: Is Web3 Bullshit?

#219
Web3 or what is meant by it is just a database in the form of a blockchain. Nothing else. And to interact with this database, you still need a centralized server. This is the main problem, having solved which, I believe, we could reach a new level. If browsers could communicate directly with the blockchain, bypassing centralized servers, this would take the technology to a new level.

Re: Is Web3 Bullshit?

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In practice if you want to share family photos with your family do you upload those photos to a third party like a social media site or a cloud provider for all your family to access? That is centralized: an agreed upon location for everyone to access. As there are multiple places where the family photos can be posted (Facebook, 500px, Google, etc), that demonstrates that the web is decentralized. What it may not b…

Choice is not a principle concept of decentralization. In decentralization the only quality that matters is degree of autonomy. If I need your common access point to send/receive content the system is highly centralized as autonomy is fully vested in the third party content host. The presence of choice only means there are multiple centralized systems not interconnecting. This is why the web is highly centralized des…

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