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Used car market gets even more bizarre

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Re: Used car market gets even more bizarre

#211

Post by sbierwagen »

gigel82 wrote: post #145
speeder wrote: post #133

Anything that depends on Silicon right now is heavily warped. For example my GPU used is seemly now more valuable than I paid for it new, I will soon attempt to sell it. Meanwhile new GPUs area crazy expensive too, people like to blame miners but even GPUs terrible for mining are crazy expensive, I actually then considered mining to pay a new GPU, only to find out that mining is not being too profitable either, the m…

GPUs are bad, CPUs are getting better, but the rest (except for RAM during mid-2020) are in plenty supply... I'm also looking for a SSD and there's quite a few options going on special (well below MSRP) these days. I'm waiting for Black Friday to pull the trigger, but maybe I shouldn't if things continue going this route. FWIW, I just extended the lease on my Leaf for the 2nd 6-month term because there is simply no n…

With current market conditions, why would a retailer have a Black Friday event? Print advertising flyers that say "come look at our empty shelves"?

Re: Used car market gets even more bizarre

#212

Post by zeckalpha »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #152
emaginniss wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but they can access your car later and see all the places you've been.

Seems like a futile effort to avoid cars with GPS if you carry a device around that is connected to a mobile network. Is there anyone that does not carry around a dumb phone, if not a smartphone?

Yes. I know people who have dumb phones but they only put the batteries in when they need to make a call.

Re: Used car market gets even more bizarre

#213

Post by frosted-flakes »

greedo wrote: post #149
SilasX wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the opposite: Normal market: “this product costs $2.60.” ‘Wasn’t it like, $2.10 a week ago?’ “Yes it was.” Cars: “This car is $26k. Oh, also you have to pay a $2k market adjustment, because man things are just crazy.” That is, in normal markets, you just raise the price , you don’t need to refer to an explicit “market adjustment”, especially not as a random addon.

This is an industry famous for charging a small fortune for BS undercoatings. For Doc fees, Nitrogen air in tires, destination fees etc.

Rust-prevention undercoatings aren't BS. They really work if re-applied regularly.

Re: Used car market gets even more bizarre

#214

Post by eru »

clavalle wrote: post #8
dlmiller wrote: post #2

My car died, needing a new engine, so I was forced to get one in October. I usually only buy used, but prices are so inflated it didn't seem worth the premium. Used 2017-2020 Toyota Rav4's with 30-60k miles were the same price as a new 2021 model, if you could get one. I knew it was bad, but I was shocked of how bad it was. I went to multiple mega dealerships with 500-1000 cars that were all spoken for. Most had 0 ne…

I was in the same boat. I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market adjustments'). So we bought new. We had to buy a car that was just off the delivery truck before the dealership had it inspected. The one we'd looked at two days before was long gone and they expected the one we bought to be sold the next day. My neighbor trad…

> I usually avoid buying new but used cars are nearly the same price as new (if you can find a dealer that hasn't done ridiculous 'market adjustments').

It seems like the dealers who didn't make these 'adjustments' are leaving money on the table?

> Mechanics are about to make a killing.

Well, we often hear exhortations to reduce-reuse-recycle. Here, the market is sending a price signal exactly along these lines, and people react appropriately.

Re: Used car market gets even more bizarre

#215

Post by eru »

Wistar wrote: post #131
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Mechanics are about to make a killing. If you're a mechanic and already have plenty of business, I imagine it's a tough call: do you jack up your hourly rates and take advantage of the windfall, at the risk of customer loyalty in the future? This insanity will pass, after all.

A friend owns a high line/niche used car dealership and his service shop, who has a legendary mechanic, has not increased rates at all but just got more selective about the service work they are doing. Also, effectively no new service customers as they are booked solid for months.

So basically they are taking their increased compensation not in the form of more money from customers, but by improving their working conditions.

It's very interesting, because this situation mirrors what economists predict about minimum wages:

Employees take their compensation as a mixed basket of wages and non-monetary perks (like nicer working conditions or opportunities for learning and advancement). Different people like different baskets. Minimum wage laws make some of these baskets illegal.

So orthodox economics predicts that increases in minimum wage leads, amongst other things, to deteriorating working conditions.

Now the situation here is reversed: there's effectively a wage ceiling when service shops are unwilling to raise prices. But they can still raise compensation, by improving working conditions.

Something similar-ish happens with very high marginal tax rates: eg the US used to have crazy high marginal tax rates after WW2 that essentially amounted to salary caps. Cue companies finding all kinds of fringe benefits that were taxed less, like health insurance.

Re: Used car market gets even more bizarre

#216

Post by eru »

barrenko wrote: post #35
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Mechanics are about to make a killing. If you're a mechanic and already have plenty of business, I imagine it's a tough call: do you jack up your hourly rates and take advantage of the windfall, at the risk of customer loyalty in the future? This insanity will pass, after all.

Yes it will, just like real estate prices. Joke.

Could you please explain the joke?

Re: Used car market gets even more bizarre

#217

Post by chadash »

Skunkleton wrote: post #210
RC_ITR wrote: post #176

The real problem will be when supply normalizes, used cars return to their sub-20k wholesale price, and a bunch of people are underwater on bad loans for (once again) depreciating assets. Have fun with that everyone!

I wonder what gap insurance is like these days. I can't imagine that it hasn't gone up in price significantly.

Probably the opposite. If the car is worth more than you owe you shouldn’t need gap insurance.

Re: Used car market gets even more bizarre

#218

Post by eru »

zeckalpha wrote: post #212
lotsofpulp wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a futile effort to avoid cars with GPS if you carry a device around that is connected to a mobile network. Is there anyone that does not carry around a dumb phone, if not a smartphone?

Yes. I know people who have dumb phones but they only put the batteries in when they need to make a call.

I'm not sure whether the inability to be called is a bug or a feature.

Re: Used car market gets even more bizarre

#219

Post by eru »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #101
baggy_trough wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think those market adjustments are ridiculous? Isn't that how supply and demand will adjust?

If you are adversely affected by price changes, then price changes ridiculous, absurd, and ripoffs. If you are beneficially affected by price changes, then price changes are a result of supply and demand.

There's a third option:

The market clearing price has increased, but sellers refuse (or are banned) from increasing their prices. That way leads to queues and shortages.

Of course, in the opposite direction you get inventory piling up (or unemployed people).

Re: Used car market gets even more bizarre

#220

Post by elzbardico »

zizee wrote: post #166
hyperman1 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, not being allowed to drive your own vehicle is probably a good thing. See e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/global-road-safety/index... . From the first few paragraphs: Road traffic crashes are a leading cause of death in the United States for people aged 1–54 More than half of those killed are pedestrians, motorcyclists, or cyclists. Drivers risk other people's lives, hence, other people have a…

It does wrestle a lot of control from the individual though. It's not hard to imagine possible abuses of power. Tracking everyone's movements is just the start. What if some government decided to deny service to someone? Or not let certain groups travel to certain places. Imagine opportunities for havoc due to hacking I'd still like driverless cars, but privacy and freedom of movement rights protections need to be th…

You don't need remote control for that. Just a etanol sensor, local processing, car computer refuses to start.
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