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NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

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Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#211

Post by throaway6942 »

arcticbull wrote: post #204
throaway6942 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's not a wash trade.. it was just a publicity stunt. I know the guy who did it!

> Wash trading is a process whereby a trader buys and sells a security for the express purpose of feeding misleading information to the market. In some situations, wash trades are executed by a trader and a broker who are colluding with each other, and other times wash trades are executed by investors acting as both the buyer and the seller of the security. Wash trading is illegal under U.S. law, and the IRS bars tax…

We can't apply 1:1 laws to crypto precisely because of this.

I can write a piece of code in a few minutes for all the collection I own, does not make it wash trading. In fact, you can very easily check it on etherscan or similar tools that this was a flash loan.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#212

Post by [deleted] »

throaway6942 wrote: post #211
arcticbull wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wash trading is a process whereby a trader buys and sells a security for the express purpose of feeding misleading information to the market. In some situations, wash trades are executed by a trader and a broker who are colluding with each other, and other times wash trades are executed by investors acting as both the buyer and the seller of the security. Wash trading is illegal under U.S. law, and the IRS bars tax…

We can't apply 1:1 laws to crypto precisely because of this. I can write a piece of code in a few minutes for all the collection I own, does not make it wash trading. In fact, you can very easily check it on etherscan or similar tools that this was a flash loan.

[deleted]

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#213

Post by arcticbull »

throaway6942 wrote: post #211
arcticbull wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wash trading is a process whereby a trader buys and sells a security for the express purpose of feeding misleading information to the market. In some situations, wash trades are executed by a trader and a broker who are colluding with each other, and other times wash trades are executed by investors acting as both the buyer and the seller of the security. Wash trading is illegal under U.S. law, and the IRS bars tax…

We can't apply 1:1 laws to crypto precisely because of this. I can write a piece of code in a few minutes for all the collection I own, does not make it wash trading. In fact, you can very easily check it on etherscan or similar tools that this was a flash loan.

> We can't apply 1:1 laws to crypto precisely because of this.

I think in a lot of cases that's simply wishful thinking. They Howey test is actually a very good fit in the crypto space broadly, especially alongside the guidance from the SEC on how to interpret it with respect to digital assets. [1] Most tokens are just straight-up securities, what we're lacking isn't regulation but enforcement.

NFTs are likely not securities as they fail the Howey test. [2] Fractionalized NFTs, however, probably are securities.

> I can write a piece of code in a few minutes for all the collection I own, does not make it wash trading.

It's still wash trading, of course, it may not be a crime because it's not done against a security as I mentioned.

IMO it could be some other kind of fraud or civil matter already as you're enticing a purchase on the basis of intentionally misrepresenting past trades. If not, I agree, this might be a good area for some additional regulation, either here or in markets broadly (I'm looking at you, art and collectibles).

[1] https://www.sec.gov/files/dlt-framework.pdf

[2] https://clsbluesky.law.columbia.edu/2021/03/19/latham-watkin...

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#214

Post by koonsolo »

bananamerica wrote: post #195
koonsolo wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they are the new baseball cards.

Please stop with this ridiculous comparison. I can hold a baseball card. I can look at it. I can put it on a binder. It's an object of appreciation, like a painting I hang on the wall. It is tangible. NFTs are nothing but an empty concept which seduces programmers with a weak grasp on reality. It's fairy dust, or an eunuch's cum. NFTs are magical thinking, occultism for programmers.

So you would pay thousands of dollars for a stupid baseball card? That is just ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as paying that much for some pokemon card or whatever. Pokemon are not real you know.

But people pay that price, no? Just as they do with NFTs. So who is to say how they should spend their money?

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#215

Post by koonsolo »

newswasboring wrote: post #207
koonsolo wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NFT and baseball cards are both pointers: they point to something you don't control. You control the pointer, not the thing they point to. So if we can agree that the card has value because "it's about Honus Wagner", and not really about the picture on the card, then NFT's and those cards are very similar. But on the other hand, you could indeed claim that the card has value because of the picture itself. But I still…

Yes when the player dies I still have the card. If the hosting server dies I have nothing but the purchase receipt

Blockchain is decentralized, so there is no "hosting server" of the NFT

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#216

Post by koonsolo »

newswasboring wrote: post #206
nazka wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continuing with the analogy you can own a rare baseball card of an all star player but many other people also own it. With NFT there is (usually) one and only one owner so it’s like there is only one card that have been produced. For instance check what they did with the NBA and dunks. They are selling short videos of every dunk. So there is only one possible owner of a dunk sold. That’s it. So only one guy own the o…

Yes but NBA can unilaterally delete this data from the server, right? Then how am I getting any control?

First of all, who cares about the video? You "own" the dunk, not the video of the dunk.

So even if the video goes down, you still "own" the dunk.

How would you delete the history of a dunk?

And in any other case: archive.org

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#217

Post by bananamerica »

koonsolo wrote: post #214
bananamerica wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop with this ridiculous comparison. I can hold a baseball card. I can look at it. I can put it on a binder. It's an object of appreciation, like a painting I hang on the wall. It is tangible. NFTs are nothing but an empty concept which seduces programmers with a weak grasp on reality. It's fairy dust, or an eunuch's cum. NFTs are magical thinking, occultism for programmers.

So you would pay thousands of dollars for a stupid baseball card? That is just ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as paying that much for some pokemon card or whatever. Pokemon are not real you know. But people pay that price, no? Just as they do with NFTs. So who is to say how they should spend their money?

I wouldn't dare say how anyone in particular should spend their hard earned money. That is not at all what I was saying.

I can, however, pose a general argument regarding my low opinion of some of the things people buy.

In other words, buy whatever you want, but I reserve the right to say it is stupid.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#218

Post by koonsolo »

bananamerica wrote: post #217
koonsolo wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would pay thousands of dollars for a stupid baseball card? That is just ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as paying that much for some pokemon card or whatever. Pokemon are not real you know. But people pay that price, no? Just as they do with NFTs. So who is to say how they should spend their money?

I wouldn't dare say how anyone in particular should spend their hard earned money. That is not at all what I was saying. I can, however, pose a general argument regarding my low opinion of some of the things people buy. In other words, buy whatever you want, but I reserve the right to say it is stupid.

I agree that it's all stupid. There is a select group of idiots that want to spend a crazy amount of money on meaningless collectibles.

Thats's why I understand both baseball cards and NFT's. :D

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#219

Post by aflag »

nazka wrote: post #197
newswasboring wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I might be close to getting it. But with a baseball card, I control the baseball card. Right? With the NFT, I have no control over the resource linked to from the NFT. If that server goes away, doesn't the thing that provided NFTs its value also go away? Its like if someone scratched off the photo from my baseball card, doesn't that baseball card become valueless at that point?

Continuing with the analogy you can own a rare baseball card of an all star player but many other people also own it. With NFT there is (usually) one and only one owner so it’s like there is only one card that have been produced. For instance check what they did with the NBA and dunks. They are selling short videos of every dunk. So there is only one possible owner of a dunk sold. That’s it. So only one guy own the o…

That feels like these websites that have a list of stars with names associated with them. Sure, people do pay to be in those lists, but it feels a bit scamy.

Re: NFT misconception: JPEG aren't stored on the Blockchain

#220

Post by vmception »

arcticbull wrote: post #205
vmception wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax remindooooooor haha that’s a meme in crypto space about being that guy

So to be clear the community is encouraging criminality and attempting to brow-beat folks suggesting compliance with the law into accepting said criminality? Sounds healthy, and definitely not like a cult. It’s not a good look to be on the receiving end of government benefits and services, gloating about your lack of contribution and encouraging others not to. This may look good in crypto circles but here in the real…

So to be clear, no, that's not what the meme is about. Is your essay from GPT-3?

It's about not offering anything to a discussion as they also don't even know about what tax is relevant. This person follows that rubric exactly, as they "suspect" a tax is involved, when a flash loan wash sale would just as easily not cause any tax at all and they offer no introspection into the nature of the transaction and what questions remain about how it conforms with the tax code. A person borrows money to pretend to transfer an asset to themselves and returns the money. Neither borrowing money or moving the asset to your other account are tax events. The tax remindoooooooor comes to the discussion way after the party, clueless, and says something clueless. Its predictable, its meme worthy. Pretty much everyone in crypto runs into people like them so the memes are made.

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