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Michelin Airless
211–220 of 316 posts
Re: Michelin Airless
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder how that breakdown works for under inflated and overinflated tires, and what percentage of the nations tires are in that state at any moment? For a consumer product like this I think it's probably more important to compare the common case than the optimal case, because I know my tires often aren't in an optimal state, and as much as we could save as a nation by making sure tires were inflated correctly, we j…
Overinflated tires will always have better economy than underinflated, all other things being equal. My guess is the average vehicle owner could improve overall fuel economy by about 0.5-1.0% by making sure their tires are at the correct pressure.
So, my thought when I said that was back when Obama mentioned keeping tires inflated correctly and getting tuneups to reduce oil consumption, and looking into that lead to this[1], which puts it at 0.6% on average, but up to 3% in specific cases.
So I guess the question is how does 0.6% fuel economy loss on average for current tires compare to the loss in efficiency for using a Tweel, but according to some data from Michelin here[2], it looks like they're actually projecting them to be more efficient than current tires? I didn't read through the whole analysis, so I'm not sure, but that's what Table 7 looks like to me at a cursory glance and reading a few paragraphs in that section.
1: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.jsp
2: https://manufacturing.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/uploads...
Re: Michelin Airless
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no reason to assume this is a solvable problem, just because it's a new field. I remember when cold fusion was considered inevitable. You don't actually have any reason to assume it will happen other than blind optimism.
... you don't actually have any reason to assume it won't happen other than blind pessimism. So let's just agree to disagree.
I love to disagree because I'm a betting man. Want to wager some money on a bet? Pick a timeline (5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 50 years) and maybe we can make this fun!
Re: Michelin Airless
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry for the conversation pivot, but this attitude sucks and is terrible for climate change and was decided wholesale by suppliers. While SUVs are leading sales in the US, it was the decision by car manufacturers to discontinue sales of anything other than SUVs in the US. That you say, "well these wheels which would reduce waste aren't useful for Americans," they are partly not useful because the car industry here p…
Nah...americans like big cars and manufacturers followed the sales! Even worse, europeans started to like big cars too...I just don't get why people like to drive big SUVs in the city.
> europeans started to like big cars too
I saw a documentary on this once where they interviewed some psych guy who was advising the car industry. He said that it took him some time to convince them to make everything ridiculously big. Not just the car, but the lights etc. It was based on his theory that when we first see something we evaluate it using the bit of our brain that has been there since we were lizards. And that bit is impressed by size. His theory was that it overrides everything. Most people will pick the bigger thing. He was right.
Re: Michelin Airless
#215Weren’t we trying to reduce plastic waste? This seems to need multiple times the amount of rubber that a normal tire needs. And for what? To prevent a fixable puncture that may or may not happen in a lifespan of a tire?
My reaction too. I would say the number of scraped tires due to wear far exceed those scrapped due to puncture. Also it looks like this airless tire contains much more rubber, that would increase the tire weight and would impact the fuel consumption. The final weight of rubber scrapped may also increase compared to conventional tiers. Airless tires have been discussed for many years, this is only marketing and brand PR.
Re: Michelin Airless
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hmm, why water filled? I can't think of any advantages, but can think of downsides such as a massive increase in unsprung weight.
A disadvantage is that only the rubber absorbs impacts, since the fluid is incompressible for all intents and purposes.
The tyre is only partially filled (for example 40%) with water - so the tyre is not “incompressible”. https://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/salesmanual/en_NA/tracto...
Re: Michelin Airless
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry for the conversation pivot, but this attitude sucks and is terrible for climate change and was decided wholesale by suppliers. While SUVs are leading sales in the US, it was the decision by car manufacturers to discontinue sales of anything other than SUVs in the US. That you say, "well these wheels which would reduce waste aren't useful for Americans," they are partly not useful because the car industry here p…
Nah...americans like big cars and manufacturers followed the sales! Even worse, europeans started to like big cars too...I just don't get why people like to drive big SUVs in the city.
There’s some truth to that – remember the surveys where parents said that they could imagine driving an SUV but not a minivan if they divorced & were dating again? – but they were also subsidized. If the price of gas wasn’t artificially low, or they had to meet the same safety and pollution standards as everything else, they’d be less popular. We did at least close the Hummer tax write-off, but we should be doing more on the safety front since SUV drivers reversed a decades-long run of fatality reductions.
Re: Michelin Airless
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry for the conversation pivot, but this attitude sucks and is terrible for climate change and was decided wholesale by suppliers. While SUVs are leading sales in the US, it was the decision by car manufacturers to discontinue sales of anything other than SUVs in the US. That you say, "well these wheels which would reduce waste aren't useful for Americans," they are partly not useful because the car industry here p…
Nah...americans like big cars and manufacturers followed the sales! Even worse, europeans started to like big cars too...I just don't get why people like to drive big SUVs in the city.
I'm not trying to defend myself or anything since I don't even have a car, but when I did, it was always an SUV. It wasn't so much a matter of preference as necessity. I'm not exactly huge, only 6'2", but if I try to drive my wife's GTI, I'm hunched over and hitting my head on the ceiling. Only way to do it is leaning severely back with the seat reclined. Trying to be a backseat passenger in an average sedan is completely impossible. Even though it's at least possible to drive a car like that, if not comfortably, it definitely isn't safe, since visibility is shot to shit with the tiny mirrors and your head and elbows running into something every time you try to turn to cover your blind spots.
Contrast that with an SUV. No need to lean or hunch. You can see everything without trouble. You can move without trouble. It's actually possible to use the backseat.
Re: Michelin Airless
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah...americans like big cars and manufacturers followed the sales! Even worse, europeans started to like big cars too...I just don't get why people like to drive big SUVs in the city.
> europeans started to like big cars too I saw a documentary on this once where they interviewed some psych guy who was advising the car industry. He said that it took him some time to convince them to make everything ridiculously big. Not just the car, but the lights etc. It was based on his theory that when we first see something we evaluate it using the bit of our brain that has been there since we were lizards. A…
Yeah the role of marketing in influencing public opinion should not be discounted.
Re: Michelin Airless
#220Former automotive engineer chiming in. "Tweels" have been around a long time, but have always failed in terms of "NVH" (noise, vibration, harshness). Michelin is claiming that this generation of tweels are appropriate for passenger cars, which means that they think they've solved the NVH problem. They seem to be marketing these alongside EVs, I wonder if they're only really intended for lighter, compact-style cars. (…
EVs don't have space to store a donut so an airless system that can't deflate would be useful.