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PostgreSQL 14

postgresql.org

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Re: PostgreSQL 14

#211

Post by jenny91 »

jd_mongodb wrote: post #200
tpxl wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some things seem to have changed from 2018, but MongoDB was by far the worst database I ever had the displeasure of using (and Amazon DocumentDB was even worse). https://jepsen.io/analyses/mongodb-3-6-4 https://jepsen.io/analyses/mongodb-4.2.6

Posting old Jepssen analyses is like pointing at old bug reports. Everytime Jepsen finds a bug we fix it lickety-split. I know it's not cool to focus on that fact, but it is a fact. The Jepsen tests are part of the MongoDB test suite so when we fix those problems they stay fixed. I would love to hear your personal experience of MongoDB as opposed to reposting old Jepsen reports. Perhaps there is something that we can…

The latest "old Jepsen report" is barely a year old. It's not like digging up dirt from years ago.

It also seems like there was quite a lot wrong even a year ago, quoting from there:

> Roughly 10% of transactions exhibited anomalies during normal operation, without faults.

It's just not a very reassuring response to say "when someone goes to dig a bit and finds a lot of show-stopping bugs, we address those specific bugs quickly".

To me it sounds like the architecture and care just isn't there for a robust data storage layer?

Re: PostgreSQL 14

#212

Post by gunnarmorling »

tomhallett wrote: post #163
gunnarmorling wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, what was it from that podcast that made you reconsider? Always eager to learn about opportunities for improving the experience of using Debezium. Disclaimer: I work on Debezium

Oh wow, by "work on" you mean "the core maintainer of". Thank you for replying. :) The main part I reconsidered based on was the level of effort taking the data from kafka and landing into snowflake, especially around handle postgres schema changes safely. I also have no experience with kafka, so I'd be out of my depth's pretty quickly for a critical part of the architecture. He also expressed the need for building q…

Gotcha, yeah, there's many things to consider indeed when setting up end-to-end pipelines. Thanks for the nice feedback, so happy to hear those resources are useful for folks. As far as event sourcing is concerned, we got another post [1] which might be interesting to you, discussing how "true ES" compares to CDC, pros/cons of either approach, etc.

[1] https://debezium.io/blog/2020/02/10/event-sourcing-vs-cdc/

Re: PostgreSQL 14

#213

Post by netcraft »

rsanheim wrote: post #157
netcraft wrote: post #17

And now the wait for RDS to support it. Thanks PG team!

Any ideas on the typical delay before its supported in RDS?

dont quote me on this, but I think it used to be quite a while, but since 12 things have gotten a lot better. I think they generally wait for the .1 patch and then get it in pretty quick.

Re: PostgreSQL 14

#214

Post by ablekh »

Congratulations and thanks to all involved! Do I understand correctly that, at this time, while PG has data sharding and partitioning capabilities, it does not offer some related features found in Citus Open Source (shard rebalancer, distributed SQL engine and transactions) and in Citus on Azure aka Hyperscale (HA and streaming replication, tenant isolation - I'm especially interested in the latter one)? Are there any plans for PG to move toward this direction?

Re: PostgreSQL 14

#215

Post by jonplackett »

kiwicopple wrote: post #22
jonplackett wrote: post #10

If you’d like to try out PostgreSQL in a nice friendly hosted fashion then I highly recommend supabase.io I came from MySQL and so I’m still just excited about the basic stuff like authentication and policies, but I really like how they’ve also integrated storage with the same permissions and auth too. It’s also open source so if you can to just host it yourself you stil can. And did I mention they’ll do your auth fo…

[Supabase cofounder] thanks for the kind words. We're about to wrap up Row Level Security on our real-time APIs too[0] - soon you'll be able to use Policies universally on all APIs. [0] https://github.com/supabase/walrus

Congrats on an awesome product. It was exactly what I was looking for.

You also get a feeling about a company pretty quick from their docs (I think it’s the best way to judge a company) and I have to say I had the same feeling as using Twilio or Cloudflare for the first time - so you’re in good company.

Re: PostgreSQL 14

#216

Post by threeseed »

mayankkaizen wrote: post #184
salil999 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how exactly is that a problem?

That was sarcasm. But yeah, you can search for MongoDB and you'll come across many many posts criticizing it. It can be said Mongodb is hated ad much as Postgres is loved. Personally I have no opinion about mongodb.

You can find posts criticising every database.

Most of the ones for MongoDB are from a decade ago and not at all relevant today.

Re: PostgreSQL 14

#217

Post by zozbot234 »

ablekh wrote: post #214

Congratulations and thanks to all involved! Do I understand correctly that, at this time, while PG has data sharding and partitioning capabilities, it does not offer some related features found in Citus Open Source (shard rebalancer, distributed SQL engine and transactions) and in Citus on Azure aka Hyperscale (HA and streaming replication, tenant isolation - I'm especially interested in the latter one)? Are there an…

Streaming replication is supported as per https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/warm-standby.html#ST... . You can likely build shard rebalancing and tenant isolation on top of the existing logical replication featureset. There are some groundwork features for distributed transactions (PREPARE TRANSACTION, COMMIT PREPARED, ROLLBACK PREPARED), but they're not supported as such.

Re: PostgreSQL 14

#218

Post by aynyc »

jeltz wrote: post #98
skrebbel wrote: post #63

These changes look fantastic. If I may hijack the thread with some more general complaints though, I wish the Postgres team would someday prioritize migration. Like make it easier to make all kinds of DB changes on a live DB, make it easier to upgrade between postgres versions with zero (or low) downtime, etc etc. Warnings when the migration you're about to do is likely to take ages because for some reason it's going…

Migrations are quite highly prioritized in PostgreSQL. PostgreSQL has the by far best migration support of any database I have worked with. There is of course a lot of work left to do but that is true for many other areas in PostgreSQL. Also I can't agree at all with "nobody coded it", patches in this area generally welcome. My first real patch for PostgreSQL was about improving migrations. And there has been talk ab…

I love postgresql, as long as I don’t have to do upgrade. I have yet to see a successful zero downtime upgrade. That being said, other databases aren’t that much better. Maybe except SQLite.

Re: PostgreSQL 14

#219

Post by threeseed »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #183
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #165

Here we are, at a fantastic version 14, and still no sign of an MySQL AB-like company able to provide support and extensions to a great piece of open source software. There's a few small ones, yes, but nothing at the billion dollar size. I am still unable to understand why.

Microsoft and Citus are "a little" over a billion?

I hope you don’t think Microsoft/Citus is going to continue to support PostgreSQL installations on anything other than Azure.

This is ask about the battle of the clouds for them.

Re: PostgreSQL 14

#220

Post by burnished »

nix23 wrote: post #209
skrebbel wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I didn't mean offense. What I meant with "nobody coded it" is that the migration DX features that don't exist yet, likely don't exist simply because they haven't been made yet (and not because eg they're architecturally impossible or because the postgres team are stupid or sth). Its hard to complain about OSS without attacking the creators, I tried to do that right buy clearly I failed nevertheless :-) Thanks…

>Sorry, I didn't mean offense. Don't be a SJP, you have the right to offend someone when he talks bs.

What does SJP mean?
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