YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007 • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007

#211

Post by silicon2401 » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

newswasboring wrote: post #205

silicon2401 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree entirely. This quote explains my view better than I could word it: > The term culture industry (German: Kulturindustrie) was coined by the critical theorists Theodor Adorno (1903–1969) and Max Horkheimer (1895–1973), and was presented as critical vocabulary in the chapter "The Culture Industry: Enlightenment as Mass Deception", of the book Dialectic of Enlightenment (1947), wherein they proposed that popul…

I don't want to litigate what culture is or isn't but surely being more connected to nature is not going to solve any of the listed problems?

Like anything else this is just my opinion, but I do think being more connected to nature would improve our lives vs what's now being normalized: working in an office all day, commuting, and staring at various screens in your free time. I believe the modern lifestyle contributes a lot to the chronic stress, anxiety, etc that are so common nowadays. This is quantitative, to an extent: spending time in nature has a measurable and positive impact on your well-being:

> Spending at least 120 minutes a week in nature is associated with good health and wellbeing

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44097-3

Culture includes lifestyle and activities, which is why I made that particular point about nature.

Re: YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007

#212

Post by silicon2401 » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 7:28 PM UTC

romwell wrote: post #202

silicon2401 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree entirely. This quote explains my view better than I could word it: > The term culture industry (German: Kulturindustrie) was coined by the critical theorists Theodor Adorno (1903–1969) and Max Horkheimer (1895–1973), and was presented as critical vocabulary in the chapter "The Culture Industry: Enlightenment as Mass Deception", of the book Dialectic of Enlightenment (1947), wherein they proposed that popul…

Sure, the output of the culture industry can be compared to the output of any other industry. That's why it needs to be preserved, especially if it's harmful. We keep museums not only to be wowed by amazing artifacts, but also to know our past, what life was like. And for the same reason, everything from Hitler's radio broadcasts to doge memes is worth preserving. See my other response in the thread.

I think I agree and disagree with you. I agree with the value of preservation, as a hobbyist collector and archivist myself. However I agree with the notion that all culture and aspects of a particular culture are of equal worth. If I had to choose in a house fire, I'd take a hard drive full of my favorite youtube videos and movies, and leave behind the hard drive full of mobile game advertisements and mid level marketing media. Would you do the same, or would you actually have a hard time choosing?

Re: YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007

#213

Post by newswasboring » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #211

newswasboring wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to litigate what culture is or isn't but surely being more connected to nature is not going to solve any of the listed problems?

Like anything else this is just my opinion, but I do think being more connected to nature would improve our lives vs what's now being normalized: working in an office all day, commuting, and staring at various screens in your free time. I believe the modern lifestyle contributes a lot to the chronic stress, anxiety, etc that are so common nowadays. This is quantitative, to an extent: spending time in nature has a mea…

I'm sorry but I find self reported data about wellbeing hard to believe in most cases. There is such a cultural pressure to associate nature with wellbeing that I find myself being very wary of such reporting.

Re: YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007

#214

Post by crtasm » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 8:17 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #212

romwell wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, the output of the culture industry can be compared to the output of any other industry. That's why it needs to be preserved, especially if it's harmful. We keep museums not only to be wowed by amazing artifacts, but also to know our past, what life was like. And for the same reason, everything from Hitler's radio broadcasts to doge memes is worth preserving. See my other response in the thread.

I think I agree and disagree with you. I agree with the value of preservation, as a hobbyist collector and archivist myself. However I agree with the notion that all culture and aspects of a particular culture are of equal worth. If I had to choose in a house fire, I'd take a hard drive full of my favorite youtube videos and movies, and leave behind the hard drive full of mobile game advertisements and mid level mark…

Preservation generally involves not being a single copy in a house that might be on fire in a thought experiment.

Re: YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007

#215

Post by MomoXenosaga » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

jjk166 wrote: post #210

whatshisface wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you build a house of straw because you're not technically savvy to build it out of brick doesn't mean you get to complain that the wind blew it down even if it was a big bad wolf. Let's apply this reasoning to a few other examples. Let's say you live in the jungle, and build your house to jungle building codes. Then, a logging company comes in and dismantles your furniture to make particle board for IKEA product…

No one is coming into your jungle to dismantle your house, or searching your vehicle to seize your wallet. You are going out of your way to utilize other people's infrastructure. If you don't rely upon youtube, you don't need to worry about youtube. If you choose to take advantage of the ease and convenience of utilizing their freely-available service, you have to deal with their rules. For most people, it's a small…

I don't understand why people think it's a corporation's job to preserve knowledge for future generations. We have a government for that. Google never signed up for that role I'm sure. And if we expect them to do that funnel taxpayer money to them. But honestly I don't want to live in a world where corporations provide these public goods.

Re: YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007

#216

Post by eecc » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

newswasboring wrote: post #207

eecc wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, most of it is just trash that won’t make anyone less rich if lost. It’s like putting a script of Antigone and a sex advertising graffiti in Pompeii on the same level.

This is a bit gatekeep-y. Who defines what is trash and not significant. There are 7 billion people on earth, do you think the same things need to be equally relevant to everyone? Something you might find trash can have enormous impact on someone else's life. One of my favorite entertainment products is pro wrestling, many, many people consider it trash. Should it be thrown out?

No, actively scrubbed in the name of some principle I guess not. Please do enjoy your wrestling but don’t cry foul if It doesn’t survive scrutiny and interest over the multitudes of humanity and is lost in time

Re: YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007

#217

Post by eecc » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 8:39 PM UTC

romwell wrote: post #196

eecc wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, most of it is just trash that won’t make anyone less rich if lost. It’s like putting a script of Antigone and a sex advertising graffiti in Pompeii on the same level.

Sex-advertising graffiti in Pompeii are still valuable cultural artifacts that let us know what life in Pompeii was like . There are two orthogonal reasons for culture to be preserved: * there are things that will be valuable to future generations to build upon and enrich them * someone in the future would ask, what was life like in 2020, and without the "trash" culture, the answer will be very much off the mark Tras…

Indeed, but there’s this concept called “forgetfulness”. We can’t afford to hoard everything, eventually things get lost in time and it’s ok. We will die and so will our own footprints disappear. Something - perhaps the most relevant and actively preserved, or frequent and therefore merely because of statistics - will survive.

But we need to entertain the option of letting go

Re: YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007

#218

Post by shukantpal » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

crtasm wrote: post #214

silicon2401 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I agree and disagree with you. I agree with the value of preservation, as a hobbyist collector and archivist myself. However I agree with the notion that all culture and aspects of a particular culture are of equal worth. If I had to choose in a house fire, I'd take a hard drive full of my favorite youtube videos and movies, and leave behind the hard drive full of mobile game advertisements and mid level mark…

Preservation generally involves not being a single copy in a house that might be on fire in a thought experiment.

That’s irrelevant to the posed question.

Re: YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007

#219

Post by ylee » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

ta1234567890 wrote: post #190

DeBraid wrote: post #183

And, it's back up per OP. https://twitter.com/Twotafkap/status/1443250484458962953

Even though I’m glad it’s back up, it sucks that it takes things being publicly blown up for Google/Youtube to do anything about their users/customers problems. Earlier this year my Google ads account got banned after not having used it for more than a year. The reason given was some vague message about violating their terms. Which terms or why? They didn’t say. Which ad or campaign? They didn’t say. Tried an appeal,…

>it sucks that it takes things being publicly blown up for Google/Youtube to do anything about their users/customers problems.

Facebook, too.

I don't have an Oculus Quest 2 but have heard good things about it. But I can't get one because my Facebook account was shut down without explanation in 2019. Despite its age (15 years) I barely used it, let alone for anything "controversial", but did regularly log into it. I repeatedly tried to verify my identity by submitting an image of my driver's license, without any response.

If a Facebook employee is reading this ... I don't want to create a fake new Facebook account (which would be against the TOS, anyway). I want my own back.

Re: YouTube removes “I Can't Believe You've Done This” video from 2007

#220

Post by romwell » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 9:36 PM UTC

eecc wrote: post #217

romwell wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex-advertising graffiti in Pompeii are still valuable cultural artifacts that let us know what life in Pompeii was like . There are two orthogonal reasons for culture to be preserved: * there are things that will be valuable to future generations to build upon and enrich them * someone in the future would ask, what was life like in 2020, and without the "trash" culture, the answer will be very much off the mark Tras…

Indeed, but there’s this concept called “forgetfulness”. We can’t afford to hoard everything, eventually things get lost in time and it’s ok. We will die and so will our own footprints disappear. Something - perhaps the most relevant and actively preserved, or frequent and therefore merely because of statistics - will survive. But we need to entertain the option of letting go

Sure, we don't need to preserve every single piece of scrap in our collective memory.

But archiving doesn't do that either. There are many more silent films archived than either of us have watched, for example.

Then sure, not everything needs to be archived. I believe there's a reasonable, subjective threshold of what you'd need to keep to get an idea of a person living in the time period.

Letting go and keeping are not incompatible ideas.