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Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

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Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#211

Post by goodpoint »

cardanome wrote: post #45

PHP is a great fit for most web projects. It is battle tested with great backwards compatibility, fast, offers the best deployment story and combines the advantages of dynamic and static typing with it's gradual typing system (Think Typescript without the complexity of Typescript.) The next version is even going to improve on its weakest point, concurrency, with Fibers: https://php.watch/versions/8.1/fibers Sure we a…

> It is battle tested

The security track record of the language speaks for itself: https://www.cvedetails.com/product/128/PHP-PHP.html

It's been battle tested and lost many battles.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#213

Post by goodpoint »

jegea wrote: post #25

I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…

> I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself.

The worst aspect of it is how unaware HN is of its biases.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#214

Post by [deleted] »

0x0nyandesu wrote: post #7
easton wrote: post #5

I'm curious how this changes if you remove PHP being used for WordPress (where the people using it probably didn't choose it). Do lots of companies still choose PHP for brand new projects? I know Facebook has a dialect they still use, but you don't hear much about it anymore.

PHP is my bread and butter. Yes there are still shops that use it. It doesn't really deserve the bad rap.

[deleted]

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#215

Post by [deleted] »

Darmody wrote: post #78
chewmieser wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tons of companies still use PHP even for new projects. Likely in part due to its market saturation - it's incredibly easy to find PHP developers. Only developers complain about PHP. And even that isn't really warranted anymore as PHP has grown leaps & bounds since most of the hate.

It's incredibly hard to find good PHP developers. I just inherited a PHP project that it's a nightmare. It doesn't make any sense. It works on PHP 7.3 but the quality is worse than the old PHP 4 stuff. It is so easy to write good PHP code nowadays but most devs don't do it. They just go for the old ways, with spaghetti code, no clear architecture, etc, because it just works. They don't have to think, just type. Thats…

[deleted]

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#217

Post by btbuildem »

I like seeing trace amounts of Erlang on there!

I've been using YAWS as my web back-end for work projects, and a lot of my co-workers either raise an eyebrow or straight-up balk at it. Fair enough, it's pretty obscure, and the syntax isn't super friendly.

But then I watch them endlessly upgrade libraries, maintain toolchains, deal with exploits, etc etc, while my code sits on decades-old nuke-proof bedrock that no hacker in their right mind would waste time targeting (and likely would find impenetrable had they tried)

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#218

Post by dnautics »

jegea wrote: post #25

I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…

Well don't forget the biases that are encoded in these percentages (I'm presuming these stats are not normalized by throughput, or revenue). A ton of these websites are basically "some small-time coding contractor is contracted to build a site for X commerce business that "needs a website"" (think: the pizzeria down the corner, or the dry cleaners). If there's even any interactivity at all, it needs to be cookie-cutter. Probably there are small firms and individuals that are responsible for hundreds of these, and some medium sized firms that are responsible for thousands. Copy, paste, customize, check off with contractee, publish.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#219

Post by CWuestefeld »

jegea wrote: post #25

I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…

How much HN is a bubble in itself.

When interviewing developers, I always ask about their experience in handling sites large enough to comprise a farm, not just a single server. In all my years of searching, I've only ever come across one developer with such experience.

But here on HN, it makes it look like the multiple load balanced web and app servers we've got across multiple tiers, not to mention Docker and k8s, are on the small side.

There's definitely a big difference between those conversing here and "the unwashed masses".

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#220

Post by lowercased »

dnautics wrote: post #218
jegea wrote: post #25

I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…

Well don't forget the biases that are encoded in these percentages (I'm presuming these stats are not normalized by throughput, or revenue). A ton of these websites are basically "some small-time coding contractor is contracted to build a site for X commerce business that "needs a website"" (think: the pizzeria down the corner, or the dry cleaners). If there's even any interactivity at all, it needs to be cookie-cutt…

It might be 'bias', but if it was as easy to do this in other stacks, wouldn't we see hundreds of thousands of cookie-cutter/copy/paste sites in, say, .net? Or rails? Or node? That this is 'easy' with a PHP base speaks to the fact that many other stacks seemingly ignore the needs of many markets.

I seem to recall a perl CMS - was is movable type? - that required mod_perl. This certainly gave it a perf boost against other CMS, but the overhead in setting up and maintaining a mod_perl system, and dealing with making code updates, was huge compared to PHP. I think these qualities continually get overlooked, decades on.

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