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The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

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Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#211

Post by spaetzleesser »

thrower123 wrote: post #128
spaetzleesser wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has destroyed the Windows desktop singlehandedly on their own. Since Win8 and “Metro” they moved away from having consistent UI widgets like it was in Windows 2000 or XP but instead made the Windows desktop a Wild West if different UI paradigms. Even the ribbon introduced a new UI paradigm that wasn’t available to third party devs. If even MS themselves doesn’t bother to be consistent then developers certai…

Yes. I would argue that it is precisely the obsession with cross-platform that has destroyed native desktop applications. If all you are offering with your native desktop framework is a dumbed-down experience, because it has to also run on tablets and phones and TVs and game consoles and smart refrigerators, then you quickly get to a place where there are few advantages in going native over shipping a webapp in a Chr…

“and Apple seems to be leaning into the same failed philosophy now.”

I agree but when you look at their profits it seems MS and Apple are doing the right thing even if I don’t like it as a developer.

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#212

Post by _nhh »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #68

It is exactly the failure of Microsoft and Apple to propose any meaningful cross-platform API. Both are fighting to increase vendor lock-in - it is in their best interests that apps written on Windows don't work on macOS/iOS and the other way round. Linux/OS folks themselves are unable to solve this problem on their own and it becomes a mouse-and-cat game. The popularity of web apps helped to reduce the problem, but…

Jetbrains cares. https://github.com/HumbleUI/JWM

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#213

Post by spaetzleesser »

alkonaut wrote: post #135
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #68

It is exactly the failure of Microsoft and Apple to propose any meaningful cross-platform API. Both are fighting to increase vendor lock-in - it is in their best interests that apps written on Windows don't work on macOS/iOS and the other way round. Linux/OS folks themselves are unable to solve this problem on their own and it becomes a mouse-and-cat game. The popularity of web apps helped to reduce the problem, but…

Microsoft made .NET platform cross platform years ago but a UI has been missing. They have a cross platform UI project now too https://github.com/dotnet/maui

They almost always have a cross platform UI project going until they abandon it and start a new one :(

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#214

Post by Chris2048 »

admax88qqq wrote: post #91

If desktops could make a platform where I can write my app in one language, host it on my own server and get global distribution running in a sandboxed environment then I'd consider it. The web distribution model is just so much nicer for users and devs. No app stores, no install/uninstall process, no access to system internals. I can deploy an app today and just send a link to my friends for them to use it. It takes…

> No app stores, no install/uninstall process, no access to system internals

the problem with app-stores is lock-in, but there's nothing wrong with repos in general e.g. linux package repositories.

What we really are missing is good sandboxes. We got there in browser/js-land, but it was hard progress; the constant attacks on web architecture and the value in overcoming it for e.g. online banking and purchase incentivised the effort to provide a solution.

If we had properly isolated executions environments, with whatever permissions model that implies, then that could be the basis of proper remote/auth-less execution; but even VMs/containers can't meet that guarantee.

Then we wouldn't need so much review process around app, or locked-down stores; installs could be pre-emptive and automatic, and system calls managed.

I suppose than rather make just a single one-off language, it would make more sense as a abstract/virtual-machine on which bytecode is executed, as the basis for other, proper language (ala the JVM).

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#215

Post by skrtskrt »

_nhh wrote: post #212
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #68

It is exactly the failure of Microsoft and Apple to propose any meaningful cross-platform API. Both are fighting to increase vendor lock-in - it is in their best interests that apps written on Windows don't work on macOS/iOS and the other way round. Linux/OS folks themselves are unable to solve this problem on their own and it becomes a mouse-and-cat game. The popularity of web apps helped to reduce the problem, but…

Jetbrains cares. https://github.com/HumbleUI/JWM

I love JetBrains products and their approach. If I had any interest in writing Java (or desktop) I would love to work there and be part of the mission.

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#216

Post by vmladenov »

gobookdev wrote: post #42
vmladenov wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron’s user experience is atrocious even on recent hardware. It falls right into the uncanny valley of superficially appearing native and while not behaving natively.

VS Code is my fav piece of software of all time, it's an Electron app

VS Code is so sluggish that I’ve found myself spending more and more time in vim when Sublime Text isn’t an option.

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#217

Post by native_samples »

_nhh wrote: post #212
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #68

It is exactly the failure of Microsoft and Apple to propose any meaningful cross-platform API. Both are fighting to increase vendor lock-in - it is in their best interests that apps written on Windows don't work on macOS/iOS and the other way round. Linux/OS folks themselves are unable to solve this problem on their own and it becomes a mouse-and-cat game. The popularity of web apps helped to reduce the problem, but…

Jetbrains cares. https://github.com/HumbleUI/JWM

That comparison is pretty weird. Electron is more extensible than JavaFX? How does that work? Browser engines are not exactly famous for their sophisticated API extensibility or advanced text/graphics APIs.

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#218

Post by [deleted] »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #180
asperous wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40 million Chromebooks will be shipped in 2021!

Calling a Chromebook (or Android) "Linux" is disingenuous for the purpose of "The Linux Desktop" "winning". We all know that a proprietary user-land stapled on top of the Linux kernel and all the applications running in a web browser is not what was meant by "year of the Linux Desktop". Hell, Google will likely replace Linux with Fuchsia within the decade.

[deleted]
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