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Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

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Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#211

Post by Gravityloss »

polytely wrote: post #170
Isinlor wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is better off today in basically every way than it was 100 years ago, and almost unimaginably better than it was 200 years ago. The worst 10% today do about as well as majority of West was doing back then. And the condition of the poor is improving rapidly. The places were it is not true, it is due to wars. But well, this is perspective of a Polish person. My country lost 25% of the population during wars w…

But isn't all this progress bought with the destruction of our environment? It isn't sustainable at all and we are basically betting we can switch to a sustainable model before everything starts breaking down.

Well, many things in the environment are a lot worse now than 100 years ago, but some things are better. While there was much less industrial production, it was more polluting per output. Waste water cleaning, industrial process cleaning or in general taking care of garbage has improved a lot in the last sixty years in developed countries.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#214

Post by birksherty »

Isinlor wrote: post #125
no_wizard wrote: post #8

Perhaps not entire civilization collapse, pending nuclear arsenals unleashed, but I think we are edging ever closer to massive social upheaval, what shape of this I am unsure about. To quote an adjacent article that was mentioned in this one: How Western Civilization Could Collapse > Eventually, the working population crashes because the portion of wealth allocated to them is not enough, followed by collapse of the e…

The world is better off today in basically every way than it was 100 years ago, and almost unimaginably better than it was 200 years ago. The worst 10% today do about as well as majority of West was doing back then. And the condition of the poor is improving rapidly. The places were it is not true, it is due to wars. But well, this is perspective of a Polish person. My country lost 25% of the population during wars w…

When people say "the world is better today", they mean only humans right? Because for all other species it's worse. Humans are pretty selfish to say world is better.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#215

Post by birksherty »

Gravityloss wrote: post #211
polytely wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't all this progress bought with the destruction of our environment? It isn't sustainable at all and we are basically betting we can switch to a sustainable model before everything starts breaking down.

Well, many things in the environment are a lot worse now than 100 years ago, but some things are better. While there was much less industrial production, it was more polluting per output. Waste water cleaning, industrial process cleaning or in general taking care of garbage has improved a lot in the last sixty years in developed countries.

Why per output? To make it look better? Total is worse, more co2, more pollution, more oil spill in oceans, plastic in oceans even inside animals etc. It's better just for a selfish species.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#216

Post by fuzzfactor »

eplanit wrote: post #33
no_wizard wrote: post #8

Perhaps not entire civilization collapse, pending nuclear arsenals unleashed, but I think we are edging ever closer to massive social upheaval, what shape of this I am unsure about. To quote an adjacent article that was mentioned in this one: How Western Civilization Could Collapse > Eventually, the working population crashes because the portion of wealth allocated to them is not enough, followed by collapse of the e…

As a US citizen, I've been wondering for almost 10 years now if we're edging towards a new civil war. In the past 5 or so, I've been worrying almost equally about the state of global affairs setting the stage for potential world war. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, we have been in a relatively stable world (9/11, Iraq, and Afghanistan notwithstanding -- none of them world war scale), but it now feels ever les…

There is only one road and it does not continue past a certain point.

Progress toward that point needs to be arrested or reversed judiciously, with rest stops along the way being some of the most useful.

Sometimes it can be worthwhile to point out that after WWII peace had been achieved but there were only three types of people in the world remaining.

Those that won WWII, Those that lost WWII, and those that were saved by the ones that won WWII.

Everyone else was killed.

That's what made it a world war.

Everyone living is descended from only these three types, spawned for better or worse out of their hard-won environment of unprecedented world peace.

Anyone dissatisfied with this, the only way they can change it is to start WWIII.

Got any ideas if there might be somebody willing to take us further down that road anytime soon?

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#217

Post by fuzzfactor »

nebula8804 wrote: post #111
enriquto wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My favorite conspiracy theory is that the CCP is sowing the division within us to drive us to civil war, whereby they win WWIII without ever firing a shot. How is this a conspiracy theory and how is this a bad thing? The so-called Cold War (i.e., WWIII) was won by the USA "without ever firing a shot", by exactly the same method: sowing division within the socialist bloc. Do you think that the U.S.-influenced divisi…

Some would argue the actions of the US in Afghanistan during the Cold War led to 9/11 as blowback. That one event permanently altered the US's path and helped to show that the empire is declining.

Actually it was the Soviets that were in Afghanistan during the Cold War, not the US.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#218

Post by nebula8804 »

pcrh wrote: post #184
nebula8804 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow this comment is packed with so many unrelated events spanning multiple generations. You fail to see that going into the 70s and 80s the societal structure shifted to a far conservative view in terms of taxation, regulation and other governmental actions. This leads to a direct correlation to the outcomes for Gen X, Y and Z which have had their upbringing in the decades since post-Nixon. If you look at the raw…

>so many unrelated events spanning multiple generations. That's the point; the world has always been turning. In terms of post-WWII economic history, the current "crisis" in the west is neither special nor very great.

This academic view of things does not matter to the people who are living a reality where their parents have done better than them. You seem to be ignoring this fact.

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#219

Post by nebula8804 »

fuzzfactor wrote: post #217
nebula8804 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some would argue the actions of the US in Afghanistan during the Cold War led to 9/11 as blowback. That one event permanently altered the US's path and helped to show that the empire is declining.

Actually it was the Soviets that were in Afghanistan during the Cold War, not the US.

Are you seriously ignoring the US's role in arming the mujahideen?

Re: Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019)

#220

Post by nebula8804 »

pcrh wrote: post #183
OneTimePetes wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but those "previous generations" had oxygen in the tank, as in financial assets stored away from the good times, to survive the bad times. Millenials go pearl diving.

Try telling that to all those laid off in the 1980's, or those who had to abandon family farms in the 1960's and 1970's, etc, etc. Ordinarily it is the older generation that looks to the past with rose-tinted spectacles. Millenials must be one of the few times when it is the younger generation that does so.

If you look at the arc of the whole generation and compare it to subsequent generations, overall the Boomers ended up much better off than their successors at the same point in time. Time is running out for Millenials to catch up. The oldest part of the cohort are in their 40s now so its looking as if they will end up poorer compared to their parents.
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