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The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

theguardian.com

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Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#211

Post by chmod600 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #51
pessimizer wrote: post #25

The reason the banks, and through the banks OnlyFans, attack sex is because they are accountable, and don't wish to take risks unless they are very profitable risks. The real danger of platforms and banks is how happy they are to censor for the government, or simply the loudest, richest mouth, in order to keep the profit flowing. If you want to fix it, you put in legal protections for people to do business, rather th…

The issue is that the banks all move in lock step, undermining the basic principle of the free market. If one bank decides it doesn’t want to deal with porn, fine. But when all the banks decide that, that’s very very bad. The cumulative effect is a chilling of protected speech in a way that congress could never legally get away with.

Agreed, but why do they move in lockstep? Is it a conspiracy among elite banks (or whatever other businesses)? Or is it a rational response to their political vulnerability? Or something else?

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#212

Post by myself248 »

rattray wrote: post #137
jdasdf wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason the banks, and through the banks OnlyFans, attack sex is because they are accountable, and don't wish to take risks unless they are very profitable risks. This is exactly the case.

Does anyone know the specific reason banks find the adult industry risky?

Two reasons.

One is the higher incidence of chargebacks. You don't have to ask if something is naughty -- just look for the chargebacks and it'll tell you. What happens is someone charges a thing, their partner sees it on the CC statement and asks about it, the first person is ashamed to admit it so they act shocked and insist it MUST be fraud because THEY would never charge something like that, and to keep up appearances, they call the bank and have the charge reversed. And platforms have to build in large margins to cover for it, or screw creators out of their payouts, or sometimes both and keep the difference.

(Which is why something irreversible, like cryptocurrency, keeps getting talked about. It wouldn't solve the shame problem, but it would eliminate chargebacks, and creators would just get paid. It just brings a bunch of other problems.)

The second is extremely vocal pressure from some fringe religious groups, who will pump the bellows of the CSAM-PR-disaster furnace for anyone who allows a nipple on their platform. You don't know the groups' names, but you've seen the hit pieces they put in the press. Look up "Exodus Cry" for one.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#213

Post by harles »

the_gipsy wrote: post #166
FranksTV wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if it's really a great market that's underserved, then you should launch a payment processor that serves the market. People think this is about morality, but it's a lot more about the cost of operating in that market. I bet that there are way more claims of fraud, money laundering investigations, subpoenas and other overhead that the banks don't want to deal with. Like teenagers stealing credit cards to pay c…

> if it's really a great market that's underserved, then you should launch a payment processor that serves the market. A credit card for porn… good luck.

I’m pretty sure the majority of consumers don’t want to be associated with such a thing - almost certainly tied to SSN and part of any credit report.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#214

Post by yashap »

bostik wrote: post #207
LMYahooTFY wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this narrative fit in with banks who've laundered obscene amount of money for murderous cartels?

Cartels pay their bills, and have very effective ways to collect from people who want to skip paying theirs. If you had billions to invest and transact with, you'd have banks bending over backwards for your business too.

I’d guess billions of dollars flow through pornhub, they’re the 10th most visited website in the world. They apparently have still had incredible difficulty getting anyone to process payments for them.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#215

Post by harles »

FranksTV wrote: post #130
ashtonkem wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that the banks all move in lock step, undermining the basic principle of the free market. If one bank decides it doesn’t want to deal with porn, fine. But when all the banks decide that, that’s very very bad. The cumulative effect is a chilling of protected speech in a way that congress could never legally get away with.

I mean, if it's really a great market that's underserved, then you should launch a payment processor that serves the market. People think this is about morality, but it's a lot more about the cost of operating in that market. I bet that there are way more claims of fraud, money laundering investigations, subpoenas and other overhead that the banks don't want to deal with. Like teenagers stealing credit cards to pay c…

My guess is it’s the chargebacks that banks really care about, which licensing and regulation won’t solve.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#216

Post by issa »

wiseStab wrote: post #203
croes wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A payment processor is useless without the possibility to pay with a credit card. And that means you depend on Visa, Mastercard and Amex.

I think we should have some sort of internet money that can be used to transact without any central authority.

Definitely being worked on: https://interledger.org/

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#217

Post by pydry »

gonehome wrote: post #19
pydry wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're reacting to regulations designed specifically to make it too much of a headache for them to service these customers.

This is also my understanding - though I think it’s mostly a side effect of the regulation (which is intended to increase the liability around enabling sex trafficking). The article mentions this, but I agree with pessimizer that the article seems to get the causality backwards. I also agree with float4 re: why platforms may not want sexual content. I’m sensing some agenda driven motivated reasoning behind this artic…

>This is also my understanding - though I think it’s mostly a side effect of the regulation (which is intended to increase the liability around enabling sex trafficking).

Sex trafficking is the flagship target of these regulations but it's fairly obvious from their messaging that the original lobbyists are trying to shut down sex work of all kinds and using sex trafficking as an excuse.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#218

Post by version_five »

chii wrote: post #48
ryeguy_24 wrote: post #13

I was thinking of this just the other day. Just the past few weeks, Apple with CSAM, OnlyFans getting between people and their fans/clients. All of these big corporate moves are making me think more and more of decentralization of platforms. Is that coming?

> Is that coming? the fact that it's decentralized means you will not be told - and it's on yourself to buy in and be part of.

This is an important observation. People (myself included) are tired of the power exerted by large corporations with centralized platforms, while at the same time, we're just waiting around for another large centralized platform to come and save us.

I have no idea how to get started, but I agree with you, the onus is on people to do something different, not just to complain about it.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#219

Post by pentae »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #188

The banks do this as counter measure to human behavior, eg. Spouse , wife, family finds out about porn payment and then the people deny they have made the payment. Or sometimes an unauthorized family member or friend uses it to pay porn. Another scenario is porn pages doing dodgy monthly subscription charges. All these lead to chargebacks. It's simply not worth it for the banks, it's bad for everyone involved. It hap…

'Friendly' fraud is a problem that was supposed to be solved with 3D Secure (Verified by Visa etc) but it still doesn't protect merchants for billing code 5967 which is what anything involving adult sites is typically billed on.

If Visa/MC wanted to fix this problem they could overnight, but they refuse to.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#220

Post by lpa22 »

wiseStab wrote: post #203
croes wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A payment processor is useless without the possibility to pay with a credit card. And that means you depend on Visa, Mastercard and Amex.

I think we should have some sort of internet money that can be used to transact without any central authority.

Found this recently I think it fulfills your idea https://dogecoin.com/
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