Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers • Hacker News Board

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#211

Post by nmfisher » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #162

johnny53169 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the most legendary game developer of all time thinks Roblox is fine, are you sure he's mistaken? If he was the most legendary game _designer_ sure, but in that area he hasn't been very relevant in a while, as a programmer I don't see what special insight he has. He seems like a nice guy and he is obviously one of the best developer ever, but I don't get the near cult he has

I was surprised how grounded he was. It’s pretty much the opposite of a cult. When you talk with him about a technical idea, you come away feeling that whatever Carmack said, it was plausible. So you start questioning your own assumptions. I’ve learned to trust his thinking. It doesn’t mean that I don’t think for myself. Quite the opposite; I don’t think anyone else in the AI scene insisted to him that it was crucial…

Off-topic, but has he (or anyone else) written more on getting rid of loss functions in ML?

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#212

Post by lupire » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:16 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #164

duxup wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like that really distorts my relationship / expectations with YouTube and just turns just about anything into 'labor'.

Yes, anything that takes the work of a person (making a video, writing a game, writing a blog) is labor.

You skipped the "free" part.

YouTube givea you "free" labor by hosting your video.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#213

Post by lupire » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:19 PM UTC

spir wrote: post #125

only_as_i_fall wrote: post #14

>Second, there’s the matter of how extensively Robux (Roblox’s in-app currency) are used to navigate the creator economy. Roblox creators are paid first by receiving a cut of Robux that comes from the sale, which they can use to purchase other Roblox experiences, in-game assets, cosmetics, etc. That means once a developer enters the Robux economy, their money is all spent inside the Roblox system until they’re able t…

These kinds of non-level playing fields are what the ethereum community hopes to replace with open protocols and non-custodial property rights.

But, as we see with NFT, it doesn't work.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#214

Post by lupire » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:23 PM UTC

dexwiz wrote: post #19

Ashanmaril wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like Roblox does want there to be dedicated Roblox developers. I saw a clip from one of their conventions with someone, possibly the CEO, saying they envision companies of 100 people doing Roblox development

There are already studios like this, such as Uplift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uplift_Games

That's 1 company, the biggest, saying they want to do that. Roblox makes a fortune off of everyone *failing" to reach that goal.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#215

Post by lupire » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #23

jnwatson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main complaint is they encourage kids to create games by emphasizing the revenue sharing aspect, without making clear how hard it is to derive any revenue at all from it.

Honestly I think it is a good learning experience. I talked about it with my son. "Yup there's lots of people making games, it's hard to make games as elaborate as everyone else." And then you just make them for fun ... The fact that kids try and fail at this is not a bad thing IMO. If kids out there can't control themselves (they're kids...) I gotta wonder what if any parental involvement there is. Let's say they ba…

I don't need to pay a third party to scam my children to teach them a lesson. I can do it myself.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#216

Post by lupire » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 1:26 PM UTC

rtkwe wrote: post #59

happyopossum wrote: post #18

My kids (and I) certainly don't see it as exploitation - they love learning to create games, and would be happy to do it even without any chance of payout. I don't think the $1k minimum payout is crazy either, as the overhead of paying 10s of thousands of kids $11.32 would kill margins (leading to Robux having to take a higher %age). I'd have to think most kids are in the same boat as mine - if their games ever earn…

It looks worse when that $1k becomes $350 because Roblox cashes out Robux at a 65% discount for itself after taking nearly 75% of every transaction.

Are you sure you aren't double counting?

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#217

Post by rtkwe » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

lupire wrote: post #216

rtkwe wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks worse when that $1k becomes $350 because Roblox cashes out Robux at a 65% discount for itself after taking nearly 75% of every transaction.

Are you sure you aren't double counting?

Yeah it's two separate cuts. Watch the video they talk about it there. They take a cut of any sales and then there's the haircut on withdrawing Robux.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#218

Post by paulryanrogers » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

dtagames wrote: post #187

ATsch wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. That is what they make their money off of, the difference between what they earn off of the labor of the video creators and the money they pay out. If nobody uploaded videos, youtube could not sell attention just like if no steelworkers arrived, the steel mill can not sell steel. That applies to all social media/user generated content platforms. Now, you might argue that this does not feel like labor becau…

Not sure why you were downvoted but you're right. YouTube, in a total inversion of the TV business model, doesn't pay creators for anything until after it's been monetized -- and then they take a cut first. The cut is so early in the process that millions of videos are monetized and the creators are not even aware, much less paid. This is the reverse of the Hollywood TV model where you paid creators first and then tr…

Youtube creators can take their content elsewhere, at any time I believe. Traditional TV studios have longer term contracts and there are often more folks involved than lone YouTubers and their patrons.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#219

Post by paulryanrogers » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

As a teen I spent many hours making games in Klik and Play and mods for Id Software games. Roblox and Minecraft both enable kids to craft experiences for and with friends. I think Roblox's market, messaging, and cut set it apart. If it didn't sell the dream of making money and maintain such a high bar to get money out and get discovered then it wouldn't be so exploitive.

I don't feel exploited by my time with other game toolkits because the expectations and outcomes were clearer.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#220

Post by fridif » Sat, Aug 21, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

rnd0 wrote: post #209

fridif wrote: post #67

It's all fun and games till people start talking about money and exploitation. Back in my day, we made mods for fun, and then we used the skills we learned to get jobs doing something corporate.

>Back in my day, we made mods for fun, and then we used the skills we learned to get jobs doing something corporate. Back in your day, ID etc weren't profiting off of the mods you made. They were shared freely in other fan spaces. Apples, oranges.

I'm pretty sure that Valve made quite the pretty penny off of just user made maps alone for CS Source?

"Dude check out this crazy game, you can SURF around, kill people, and level up your character for crazy new powers" was the reason I bought CS Source after seeing it at a friends house...