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In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

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Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#211

Here's how it will probably go wrong; because privacy abuses always sit on a slippery slope: Detect CP Detect child abuse Detect signs of child abuse Detect signs of abuse Detect signs of violent crime Detect violent crime Detect crimes Detect "crimes" People not believing me, then tell one example of a privacy encroaching policy that didn't expand its original scope of "think of the children" and "terrorism". The wo…

Apple is already helping both the FBI and CCP illegally spy on their citizen-subjects. Most iCloud data in the US is stored unencrypted to aid the US national spying, and iCloud data in China is stored on CCP-accessible servers for the same reason.

This is no different. Apple knows which way the wind blows.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#212

Apple's mistake is that they seemingly believe there is pushback because people misunderstand how it works. The reality is more nuanced: People understand exactly how it works, and how it works is that it is turn-key onboard spyware, that Apple pinky-swears isn't being used wrong today . For example if the scope/mission expands (e.g. foreign governments), suddenly you've created a drag-net for whatever "badness" is o…

I see whataboutism (google drive scans! ms scans!) and "here are the technical details of why we can't just look..." . The bottom line is that none of that matters. the 99.999% problem is Apple is spying on you on your. own. device. I don't know how many techies I've had to shoosh and point that out. It doesnt matter what kind of hash or algo or "layers of protection" are being used. What they are doing is inherently wrong and totally the antithesis of their privacy mantra. It will also inevitably be used by governments for ant-humanitarian purposes to imprison people for thought crimes against the state. Unless they (Apple) backpedal this abomination soon I'm definitely minimizing my apple purchases in the near future and moving off the platform entirely long term. Even google isn't so bold as to put their spyware on their devices to police you for the government. Suddenly ads don't seem that bad ...

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#213
post #145

Apple's mistake is that they seemingly believe there is pushback because people misunderstand how it works. The reality is more nuanced: People understand exactly how it works, and how it works is that it is turn-key onboard spyware, that Apple pinky-swears isn't being used wrong today . For example if the scope/mission expands (e.g. foreign governments), suddenly you've created a drag-net for whatever "badness" is o…

>"A cryptographic hash + file size combo" SHA already uses the length in the output hash. Having the explicit length is quite superfluous

Yeah, having to tack anything onto a secure cryptographic hash for practical collision avoidance means you should just use a longer hash.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#214
What I came to realize on a broader scale (1) is that none of these automated system provide any disclosure or transparency. Neither for true nor false positives.

In Computer Security we are required to provide responsible disclosure when the privacy of users was (potentially) violated. When law enforcement has a search warrant for my place, I can at least notice that an intrusion happened and in many countries I can request the warrant.

Here, a false positive never gets any of the "Five Ws" answered: Who used this system (which government agency / company)? Why was I (mistakenly) flagged? Which particular piece of my data triggered the system? When did the system phone home? What is the intended purpose of this system?

And most importantly: What parts of my privacy were violated? Who had access to those, and how was the infringement of my rights remedied?

We have hardware fuses, trustzones and so on. It must be possible to have a auditable and tamper-proof system that triggers once such a system calls home and then discloses the "breach" to the user after X days.

If the public had access to that information and transparency reports about the success rate vs. false positivity rate, then society could evaluate the system is adequate. I'd wager many would question the "save the children" argument if they regularly heard about false positives and egregious access to private photos by law enforcement.

Many there are barely any false positives, I'd personally support a CSAM in that case. As it stands we won't know.

(1) Other less invasive system (Youtube strikes, many social media bans) also share the laid out concerns.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#215
post #97

Apple's mistake is that they seemingly believe there is pushback because people misunderstand how it works. The reality is more nuanced: People understand exactly how it works, and how it works is that it is turn-key onboard spyware, that Apple pinky-swears isn't being used wrong today . For example if the scope/mission expands (e.g. foreign governments), suddenly you've created a drag-net for whatever "badness" is o…

> people misunderstand how it works You can literally read any thread on HN or Reddit to see this is the case. Thousands of comments about facial recognition and AI, completely misunderstanding how it works. The EFF article itself was FUD. The EFF article starts right off claiming a backdoor, which is completely incorrect. Taking hashes of client-side content is not a backdoor, and the EFF should be embarrassed for n…

The spirit of EFF comments is 100% correct. It got them a $100 donation from me today as well on top of my annual $500 donation at Christmas time.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#216
post #171

Unfortunalty if our experience from the past with such events teaches us anything, it's that a minority of us will stop using apple products (or keep not doing it) but the rest of the world will quickly forget and carry on as usual. Worse, if your decision to not use an iphone makes others people life slightly anoying for 2 seconds a week, many will bash on you. As a FOSS user with no FB nor whatsapp account that ask…

There is no viable option if you want a quality smartphone. Androids spy on you already. Apple will be spying on you. The dark side of economies of scale.

Android ROMs like GrapheneOS do not spy on you, verifiably.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#217

Apple's mistake is that they seemingly believe there is pushback because people misunderstand how it works. The reality is more nuanced: People understand exactly how it works, and how it works is that it is turn-key onboard spyware, that Apple pinky-swears isn't being used wrong today . For example if the scope/mission expands (e.g. foreign governments), suddenly you've created a drag-net for whatever "badness" is o…

No, Apple fully understands the situation, and in fact, you don't see many Apple fanboys in the comments defending the firm for once because even they know it's wrong.

Apple just communicates this message because that's what they need to say for their business, that's all.

And they can do so because they also know this uproar will disapear like tears in the rain in a short time if they keep smiling. Their bottom line will not be affected because people don't care.

Remember that now, Bill Gates, who we used to associate ti Satan in the 90s, is now viewed as a hero.

Remember that about 1 american out of 160 is working at Amazon, a company with the reputation of treating their employees terribly. Most people hence knows somebody impacted by this, but don't stop shopping at amazon.

Remember you could say you grab them by the pussy and be elected president.

Remember people gives in mass their data to someone who said "they trust me, the dumb fucks".

Remember that when somebody risked his life to unveil a massive conspiracy to spy on the entire world, the person has been hunted as a traitor.

Remember that one president can lie about WMD, go to war against the vote of the UN, kill thousands of civiliands, spend 600 billions of dollars there while poverty is rising at home, and suffer no consequence whatsoever. Most people have forgotten already. Hell, my girlfriend don't even remember the name of the guy.

But it's you that have to be monitored all the time for CP. And you will be punished harshly if you behave badly, not just according to law, but also according to social contracts, both which powerful people can escape now with money and PR.

That's the world we are living right now.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not here by accident. Those are symptoms of a public that doesn't care. We have been explaining the consequences of each choice for techs during the last 20 years. I've had the talk with my friends and familly many times. Very patiently. Very nicely. Nobody cares. It's just an annoyance for them. And it requires an enormous more amounr of energy to live your live this way than not caring. Even more if you gott…

How would the public demonstrate caring about this?

Voting with their wallets and a lot of leg-stomping

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they can decrypt in a “specialized” situation, then they can decrypt in any situation. All that has to be done is to broaden the classifier step by step. Or someone else gets access to the back door. That’s why there can be zero allowed back doors.

The database ships with iOS. Apple can do anything they want in iOS updates. In fact, this was exactly the “back door” the FBI requested Apple use half a decade ago. Per this standard, all Apple end to end products are already backdoored, and nothing new was announced.

Yes but previously Apple’s stance was, “no we won’t do that”. And so they earned many’s trust. Now they are planning to do exactly that. And so they have broken the trust they earned.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#220

I really don’t understand why apple is doing this. What point are they trying to score and from whom ? Do they think implementing a spyware in iPhone would boost sales? Or does it bring revenue from charging government agency to use this feature? I just don’t get it.

Why are you looking so hard for an "evil" reason or ulterior motives for it?

Companies doing good things brings good PR. That could just be it.

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