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Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone

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Re: Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone

#211

Post by zepto »

cxr wrote: post #196
zepto wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The context is: “Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone.” And: “It’s easier to program a TI-89 calculator than an iPhone.” > The original comment as it stands is fine. Don't expect to be able to interpret it on different terms than the way it was meant to be understood. The comment is complete bullshit in this context. > instead of what it was, which is a statement about HCI and the "…

> The context is: “Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone.” It's not. You are ignoring the place in the thread where the comment appears. No one has argued that learning TI Basic is more worthwhile than learning HTML, JS, and CSS (or Python) on a mobile phone. No one has argued for advising someone that they should be "getting a job if you only know how to program a TI-84". The claim…

> The claim is strictly that going from 0 to hello world is easier on a calculator than it is on an iPhone.

That just isn’t the claim made. Again you just have just made something up.

Let’s copy and paste the claim and take a look:

“I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation.

It’s easier to program a TI-89 calculator than an iPhone. Why can’t this be better?”

It turns out that it isn’t what you said it was.

As for picking a fight, you seem to be the only one doing that here.

You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context.

Prior to that we were discussing the merits of calculators and phones for programming.

You might not like the content, but there were no personal attacks before you brought them here.

Re: Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone

#213

Post by sphotavada »

password321 wrote: post #178
jiggawatts wrote: post #26

Story time! I grew up in eastern Europe in the communist era, in a country where entire factories were run using Commodore 64 computers that were smuggled in, bypassing export controls and sanctions. The programmer at one such factory was a friend of my father, and we'd go over to his place for dinner semi-regularly. He didn't have kids, and I was six, so I was bored to tears. No toys and nobody my age to play with!…

Why is a comment that makes assumptions about its readers and makes typical bragging points of meaningless things like learning syntax at a young age near the top? It felt like I was reading a parody towards the end.

Welcome to the circlejerk, pal.

Re: Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone

#214

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

908B64B197 wrote: post #182
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're definitely not alone and I have seen many indian and other south asian friends do the same. Thank you for considering the struggles of others while you yourself face it. I know a self made individual from Nepal like you in U.S. working in IT with green card and might be able to guide you. Contact me if you're looking for such help. It's hard to visualize the digital divide in education induced due to the pand…

> Perhaps if OLPC had been successful things might have turned out differently, Maybe there's still a chance to build a OLPC using latest hardware like RPi 400. At India scale they could design their own machines. Something like a ThinkPad X60 where the motherboard can attach a RPI Compute Module.

Rich states like Tamilnadu already have a successful free laptop program for Govt. high-school students and Govt. colleges.

Recent specs were LENOVO E41-25 (81FS) with AMD A4 and 4GB memory. There are rumors that there will be an upgrade this year with HP manufacturing the laptop as Lenovo is barred from Govt. contracts in India.

It's to be noted that the said state has also made all educational content for schools distributed over free-to-air channels.

So a modular computer based out of RPi which can receive TV/Radio can technically cost lesser than the aforementioned full-fledged laptop. I've been brainstorming such a device with others on the thread mentioned on my parent comment.

Re: Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone

#215

Post by raihansaputra »

yorwba wrote: post #44
raihansaputra wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share what apps you use? I saw an editor on the tweet image, So I guess there's some different setups using different apps out there. Chrome on Android also has DevTools internally (through chrome://inspect when you connect a debuggable android to a laptop). I don't know whether that's possible to expose or not on the phone, but would be very helpful. VSCode/Monaco should also be "runnable" as they're running…

Chrome's DevTools don't have a mobile UI AFAIK, so the best available option for debugging in a mobile browser is probably Liriliri's Eruda https://eruda.liriliri.io/ which is a kind of embeddable debugger that runs as part of the website you're debugging.

I just knew about this, definitely very cool.

Re: Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone

#216

Post by cxr »

zepto wrote: post #211
cxr wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The context is: “Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone.” It's not. You are ignoring the place in the thread where the comment appears. No one has argued that learning TI Basic is more worthwhile than learning HTML, JS, and CSS (or Python) on a mobile phone. No one has argued for advising someone that they should be "getting a job if you only know how to program a TI-84". The claim…

> The claim is strictly that going from 0 to hello world is easier on a calculator than it is on an iPhone. That just isn’t the claim made. Again you just have just made something up. Let’s copy and paste the claim and take a look: “I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation. It’s easier to program a TI-89 calculator than an…

This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is?

> I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation.

Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program".

> You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context.

The lack of self-awareness here is staggering.

(What personal attack of mine is that, by the way? Be specific. Can you quote it?)

Re: Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone

#217

Post by zepto »

cxr wrote: post #216
zepto wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The claim is strictly that going from 0 to hello world is easier on a calculator than it is on an iPhone. That just isn’t the claim made. Again you just have just made something up. Let’s copy and paste the claim and take a look: “I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation. It’s easier to program a TI-89 calculator than an…

This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is? > I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation. Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program". > You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context. The lack of…

> This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is?

Nobody is talking about hello world programs except you. That’s the point.

> Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program".

‘to write a minimal program’ was added in a later comment from the claim in response to my point about the iPhone being superior, as perhaps the one example of why the TI might be easier to program.

It doesn’t define the issue - it’s just one thing that the commenter was trying to argue was better about the TI.

I don’t even think it’s true. Firing up Pythonista and writing hello world is very straightforward. Doing the same on a TI-89 is not actually simpler. The process is in fact very similar.

> What personal attack of mine is that, by the way? Be specific. Can you quote it?

“…trying to argue your uncharitable take….”

“…Go pick a fight and declare that the pushback you encounter is "bullshit" somewhere else…”

“…This is stupid…”

“…The lack of self-awareness here is staggering…”

Re: Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone

#218

Post by alecst »

codethief wrote: post #172
alecst wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no good evidence that adults have more difficulty acquiring language than children. This kind of rocked me, because in my experience, kids have a clear and obvious advantage compared to adults. They can completely passively acquire a language, phonology and grammar, with no training, in a matter of 5 years or so. And that's completely passively, no education, no effort. I totally buy that you can turn an ad…

> in my experience, kids have a clear and obvious advantage compared to adults Their advantage is that they have almost unlimited time. Consider how long it takes for a child to speak their first word and, then, to actually speak in well-formed sentences: Several months, even years, of complete immersion and 24/7 exposure to native speakers. Now compare this to an adult attending a language class for the first time.…

Interesting theory. But it cannot explain a few things. One of which is why children never have accents, and adult non-native speakers do. Another is that children do not need lessons to learn a language, and adults always do.

Re: Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone

#219

Post by fridif »

eigenvector wrote: post #207
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they can charge 30-40% of orignal price to receive electronic items Ouch. Hanlon’s razor aside, it’s almost as if the government is intentionally preventing the economy from modernizing. Really sad that some bureaucrats couldn’t see the huge long term gains of a more technology-oriented economy, and instead could only focus on whatever marginal short term revenue these tariffs generated.

Red tape is definitely an issue, but freight costs to Nepal are also extremely high. It's a landlocked country with very poor transportation networks. Air courier (eg DHL) to Kathmandu is in the range of $5/kg, and if the final destination is in a village it needs to be hand-carried there. So accessing cheap stuff from abroad is much harder than we might think coming from developed countries. There is no such thing a…

So the freight cost to send someone a laptop is under $25? That seems reasonable if of course the person is living in Kathmandu...

The government tax on electronics is not good though. I'd have to paypal them extra money to cover it, if paypal is even a thing for them.

Re: Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone

#220

Post by cxr »

zepto wrote: post #217
cxr wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is? > I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation. Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program". > You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context. The lack of…

> This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is? Nobody is talking about hello world programs except you. That’s the point. > Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program". ‘to write a minimal program’ was added in a later comment from the claim in response to my point about the iPhone being superior, as perhaps the one example of why the TI might be easier to program. It doesn’…

> Nobody is talking about hello world programs except you

Oh, they're not? When the person you replied to wrote, "It’s far easier to write a minimal program on a TI calculator", what did you understand that to mean?

Reading back the thread, it's clear that not only is hello world in scope, minimal programs are the only sort of program that anyone who isn't you even mentioned. What this is is a bizarre situation where you insisted on linking the topic of programming TI-89 calculators to general purpose computing while simultaneously trying to take up arms at the suggestion that anyone could think there could a relation between the two.

> that’s not a quote [...] just another thing you have made up just now

Oh, it's not? So the words "easier to write a minimal program" don't appear here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27906345>? And it's not true that you quote those words and then even use them yourself while engaging with the topic here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27906820>?

> You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context.

Oh, I did? So those bits you're identifying didn't occur here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27912959>, in a reply to a comment that was a reply to me? (Or is it that they did occur there, but you're maintaining that the comment is a reply to another comment that was itself not a reply to me?)

Not only was this a stupid thing to pick a fight over, this has got to be the dumbest attempt to quarrel over the written record that I've seen since "I'm not using the word free" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23250829>

-----

Edit following your edit:

> ‘to write a minimal program’ was added in a later comment from the claim in response

Yeah, it's almost as if someone wrote down their thoughts to share them, and then after seeing your response they attempted for your sake to offer some clarification in a followup to eliminate the misunderstanding. And it's almost as if you can't seem to acknowledge that we're here because you misunderstood them, and you continue to insist on maintaining that the thing that came from your misreading them is the thing that they meant all along.

Here's a tip: if someone says something that sounds outrageous and your first thought is, "man, it's unbelievable that someone would say that!", then your second thought should be, "yeah, it IS unbelievable that someone would say that", and then reflect on why your first thought was to believe that that's what they were saying. Otherwise, what you end up doing instead of holding them responsible for their intent, the products of their mind, and so on, is attempting to hold them responsible for the products of your mind.

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