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EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

bbc.com

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Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#211

Post by cinquemb »

sabjut wrote: post #130
the-dude wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This total control nonsense Also known as taxes. > these dinosaur idiots Taxman.

I think it's really funny to see all these people think that they can with crypto game the millennia old system of taxation. Of course any sovereign nation is eventually going to break down any kinds of tax fraud. A state unable to collect taxes ceases to be a sovereign state.

Arguments over taxation have always led to war, if history is any example… right now people bullish the decentralization narrative are willing to pay taxes to miners/validators/protocols and less so governments.

Eventually this will lead to decentralized warfare with dao's fighting asymmetrically and not playing by the old rules.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#212

Post by Bellamy »

d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

I thought the crypto was born as the ALTERNATIVE to regular fiat money. Therefore it should not be regulated, says the supporters.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#213

Post by cinquemb »

realcertify wrote: post #149
d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

I would argue with "society has clearly chosen" statement. The governments are putting more and more strict regulations in place for last decades and they often don't care what the society thinks about those. There used to be a time not long ago when one could show up in bank with a bunch of cash and it would be of no issue. I don't think that terrorism was less important back then.

> I would argue with "society has clearly chosen" statement.

Agreed. IMO, what a society is/does/allows is always up for grabs…

Man made rules aren't laws of physics, and even those are bounded by our understanding/awareness of such.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#214

Post by deepGem »

d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

Well, transparency works both ways doesn't it? Governments are largely not transparent. If they were, you wouldn't have something like the CIA, Guantanamo bay and the entire surveillance enterprise. I am just quoting the US government as an example but most governments are more or less the same.

Expecting others to be transparent, while governments go on about their private secret activities is very unfair.

Case in point - why hasn't any government adopted any open blockchain till date ? I mean, there are gazillions of operations that the government can use a blockchain for. OK, forget about a blockchain, at least an open distributed ledger ? For instance, all public RFPs and contracts can go on a queryable open distributed ledger. Why hasn't this happened yet ?

Let the governments show a spend log of every tax penny collected and then we'll talk about transparency.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#215

Post by novok »

elmo2you wrote: post #83
BitwiseFool wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about generating your own wallet? Are EU citizens required to report that when they do?

I believe that the moment you hold valuable assets (i.e. any value of crypto currency) in any wallet, then you should report that (even now). I have no idea how these new rules will play out, but I can image how exchanges might be forced allow only transactions with "sanctioned" wallets (i.e. traceable to person), and international exchanges not playing complying being blocked from to the EU market.

I buy a gold watch, do I report that too? I buy a trading card, I bought a shiny jewel. We can keep on going down the rabbit hole here.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#216

Post by lottin »

ur-whale wrote: post #196
lottin wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean not long ago when the government budget was 1% of GDP? Nowadays it's 40-60%, in developed countries. Large levels of public spending are a choice that we have made as a society, and the spending needs to be funded somehow.

> Large levels of public spending are a choice that we have made as a society It most certainly isn't a choice we've made democratically. Rather, it's a case of boiling the frog: a thousand tiny cuts inflicted by elected politicians over the very long term which has slowly led to the monster size leech our government has become.

No, it is a choice that we've made. For example, in Europe spending cuts after the 2007-2009 financial crisis were met with widespread protests.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#217

Post by jstummbillig »

deepGem wrote: post #214
d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

Well, transparency works both ways doesn't it? Governments are largely not transparent. If they were, you wouldn't have something like the CIA, Guantanamo bay and the entire surveillance enterprise. I am just quoting the US government as an example but most governments are more or less the same. Expecting others to be transparent, while governments go on about their private secret activities is very unfair. Case in p…

> Well, transparency works both ways doesn't it? Governments are largely not transparent. If they were, you wouldn't have something like the CIA, Guantanamo bay and the entire surveillance enterprise.

Given that the existence of your examples and its horrors is very much common knowledge, at this point it is clearly not an issue of transparency. The people quite simply choose to be okay with it.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#218

Post by TeMPOraL »

voldacar wrote: post #145
Trias11 wrote: post #10

That's why the move to decentralized everything. This total control nonsense will eventually end and these dinosaur idiots will stuck with their own destructive ideas

I really, really want to believe this but I don't think I can. Over the past several years there has been an unquantifiable but subjectively enormous shift in the atmosphere of the cryptocurrency world. At one point it shifted from being about paranoid hackers and techies trying to create a way of doing transactions that was free from trusted third parties to being essentially a space for grifters to shill shitcoins…

> The crypto people we have now seem to lack the deep, fundamental commitment to human freedom, privacy, and security that was the animating force behind the creation of bitcoin.

It's probably because the few remaining crypto people, in the space dominated mostly by scammers, realized that crypto anarchy is something that's fun to read about in a sci-fi novel, not something you actually want to live in.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#219

Post by delaaxe »

stavros wrote: post #63
delaaxe wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralize everything = make all your transactions visible by anyone

Except this is completely untrue, since there are private cryptocurrencies you can use.

“Completely untrue”, this is a mathematician’s answer.

Any real person using DeFi or NFTs is not using a privacy coins

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#220

Post by novok »

forty wrote: post #81
jsbdk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any comment that criticises the EU gets downvoted immediately here. Link to a news piece commenting the new Spanish law: https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20210630/congrso-aprueba-ley-pr...

I'm not really sure your comment was criticizing anything though, just stating fact. Whether this is good or bad is a matter of opinion. Personally I'm more than happy to see cash disappear since I think it's mostly useful for laundering money and tax avoidance.

This kind of attitude usually comes from people who have not been prosecuted by their government or have not had a family history of it happening to their parents or grandparents. They probably trust their governments to an implicit degree. If you are escaping a 3rd world or 1st world shit hole and you are a target of an authoritarian, murderous regime, cash might be your only life line to get smuggled out of a country and retain your families life.

You don't necessarily want everything under the control of government because government has a repeated history of going really bad, very fast.

Some recent examples: Nazi Germany, Islamic Iran, Communist China, Vietnam, Pol Pot & Cambodia, Soviet USSR, Burma, etc

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