Very simple, men are biologically different than women. Anything else is subjective. When did we stop using science to protect women?. This is nuts. Hope they ban this guy, that's cheating
Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place
211–220 of 643 posts
Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
> At its very core, the exclusion is seen as a form of "well you're not really a woman". For the supporters of trans-women being women, is there a canonical / generally accepted list of criteria which would classify people "objectively" as a woman? If there is such a thing as a group of people that can be called "women", how would membership in that group be established? I.e., what really is a woman?
If someone considers themselves a woman, they are a woman. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that for 99% of life. I can understand some objections in a very limited number of contexts and sports is one of those contexts, but otherwise just allow people to choose where they fall on the gender spectrum.
What makes 'woman' a special class in this regard? We wouldn't accept the same kind of self definition elsewhere. I couldn't decide to be a Native American without meeting some external criteria around my birth and life. Nor can I decide to be 6 foot 4 or thin even if I sincerely believed it. Someone who did self define like that would be regarded as delusional.
Is there some principled way to decide what things one can self define as and which one can't?
Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hmmmm. At that point are you not simply beginning to divide by ability? Basketball for short people? Weightlifting for weak people? It would seem to both go against the spirit of sport and be impossible to implement in practice (for e.g how many different ways do you cut it?) Perhaps the more fundamental question — once again leaning on apparently somewhat flimsy terminology — would be: is biological sex something wo…
Many sports have many categories. Boxers and wrestlers are separated based on weight
Yes, but as mentioned elsewhere weight alone would do little to solve this issue. Males would still dominate.
So presumably you include other factors — but then you are simply dividing by ability. You could conceivably attempt to divide by innate ability (theoretically allowing competitors to compete against one another based on nurture, not nature) but that would be impossible to do fairly or in a way that would make sense to audiences.
Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place
#214Radiolab did an interesting piece on gender and sports a couple years back.
https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dutee
Gender is a nuanced thing, and there's no way to definitively divide people into the male and female categories.
The episode explores the story of Dutee Chand, a professional sprinter who for a time was not allowed to compete as a women due to her hyperandrogenism, a condition that leads to unusually high levels of testosterone.
Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place
#215Almost everybody at olympic level takes testosterone and other "supplements". They either dodge testing, use untestable substances or take it right up to the allowed thresholds.
Given that, categories in competitions should be based on different bands of hormone levels etc, taking gender/sex out the discussion completely and also helping with this ridiculous projected view that there's no doping going on.
Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place
#216The idea that an athletic competition--conferring a first, second and third place, holds any substantial meaning at all is completely absurd. All other controversy simply flows from this fact.
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Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Ideology"? Is it unfathomable to you that people would reasonably be able to feel that they have a different biological gender to how they feel in their mind? And that people cavalierly dismissing their acceptance in society is somehow not harmful? If you want to talk respectfully about the implications of transgender athletes in sport, that's one thing. But what you are doing is not that. You're trying to dismiss t…
I've been curious if anyone has studied why there are more and more transgender people lately. I don't believe it is only due to awareness and perception - it seems to be occuring more and more frequently. Do other animals with similar levels of consciousness experience gender dysmorphia?
Are you similarly confident that the dramatic rise in left-handedness in western cultures over the past ~200 years is due to factors other than awareness and perception?
Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However, it presents a huge problem for women's athletics, Trans women have been able to compete for years in Olympic level sport, and they haven't wiped the floor with cis women. I fail to see evidence of the problem - I see a lot more evidence of it being a culture war and TERF talking point. It also doesn't really line up with the fact that we fawn over genetic quirks that let Michael Phelps dominate his sport.…
> It also doesn't really line up with the fact that we fawn over genetic quirks that let Michael Phelps dominate his sport. If we think that certain sorts of genetic quirks are unfair in women's sport, why do we allow them in men's? I appreciate that you’ve said this so concisely and clearly. The Olympics are, overwhelmingly, a show of extraordinary human abilities. Singling out transwomen for scrutiny and prejudice…
So you admit you want to abolish women's sports?
Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place
#219The idea that an athletic competition--conferring a first, second and third place, holds any substantial meaning at all is completely absurd. All other controversy simply flows from this fact.
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Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place
#220The idea that an athletic competition--conferring a first, second and third place, holds any substantial meaning at all is completely absurd. All other controversy simply flows from this fact.
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