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Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

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Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#211

Post by wolverine876 »

nescioquid wrote: post #188
wolverine876 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's just assume such instructions were in fact given to educators on some non-negligible scale. IMHO, and pertinent to the OP: That is out of textbook of how mis- and disinformation impacts human thinking: Observe something emotionally provocative and follow the urge to dive in, regardless of the reality: 'What if it's true???" I've trained myself not to do it. I'm always interested in valuable, credible informat…

You seem to deny there is any propaganda or indoctrination happening in U.S. education. A commenter asked what it would take to change your mind, and offers a hypothetical scenario as a test (which may have some basis in reality, but excludes that from consideration), and you refused to consider it. Do you think there is any sort of evidence, if demonstrated adequately, that would change your mind? What sort of evide…

I'm not defending myself against baseless allegations, if that's what you are seeking.

They made a claim, not me. Let's see some evidence or it's just, effectively, propaganda. Anybody can say anything without evidence.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#212

Post by wolverine876 »

akomtu wrote: post #197
wolverine876 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some legislatures are so concerned that they've started passing laws prohibiting propaganda. Example is the recent HB3979 bill: > https://legiscan.com/TX/text/HB3979/id/2339637 If you are aware of that bill, you know that it's potentially a product of the conservative reactionary movement, which demonizes anything liberal and attacks with everything they've got. That doesn't mean propaganda doesn't exist in educati…

The bill's language is very simple and reasonable, e.g. "members of one race or sex cannot and should not attempt to treat others without respect to race or sex." I don't really see where this bill attempts to demonize anything.

It's telling, perhaps, that the parent comment doesn't address the question, misrepresents what I wrote, and continues to misrepresent the bill.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#213

Post by nescioquid »

wolverine876 wrote: post #211
nescioquid wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to deny there is any propaganda or indoctrination happening in U.S. education. A commenter asked what it would take to change your mind, and offers a hypothetical scenario as a test (which may have some basis in reality, but excludes that from consideration), and you refused to consider it. Do you think there is any sort of evidence, if demonstrated adequately, that would change your mind? What sort of evide…

I'm not defending myself against baseless allegations, if that's what you are seeking. They made a claim, not me. Let's see some evidence or it's just, effectively, propaganda. Anybody can say anything without evidence.

You challenged the notion of "indoctrination and propaganda happening in US education" (from the parent comment). You simply made a counter-claim to the parent commenter, to the effect that you know none of your teachers ever presented opinion as truth.

Another commenter asks you whether, hypothetically, a certain kind of training were given to teachers would change your opinion.

Who is making a claim here?

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#214

Post by reedjosh »

slg wrote: post #168
reedjosh wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At NASA, we're on a mission of equity... You did pick the more innocuous part. The opening is the above. Equity is a word being used to mean equality of outcome. This is viewed as something deeply wrong from a libertarian perspective. The classic example is weighing down a strong person such that his natural strength isn't a true advantage. It's cutting down the tall poppies, and it's asian student's needing better…

>Equity is a word being used to mean equality of outcome. You state this as a fact when only an extreme minority of people actually want equality of outcome. The key to NASA's statement is the word "available". They aren't talking about guaranteed outcome. They are specifically talking about opportunity. It is an ad advocating for equality of opportunity.

I think what you're saying here is fair. I still don't think you've addressed my other points regarding organizations using progressive language to guard themselves from criticism.

But yes, I'm probably guilty of the knee-jerk emotional reaction to words made to trigger emotion as the article of discussion mentions.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#215

Post by tolbish »

temp8964 wrote: post #198
tolbish wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fox is known for the "People are saying" propaganda that makes something seem like it's everywhere to build consensus.

But it's truly "everywhere". There are too many photos of those crazy presentations come out almost every week. Maybe you think it's not widely spread. But those crazy nuts are being adopted by many places. Parents are rightfully concerned.

It must be everywhere. Everyone is talking about it. It's all you hear about. We must be right.

https://www.theonion.com/conservative-man-tearfully-informs-...

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#216

Post by akomtu »

wolverine876 wrote: post #212
akomtu wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bill's language is very simple and reasonable, e.g. "members of one race or sex cannot and should not attempt to treat others without respect to race or sex." I don't really see where this bill attempts to demonize anything.

It's telling, perhaps, that the parent comment doesn't address the question, misrepresents what I wrote, and continues to misrepresent the bill.

Is there a particular statement in the bill you deem wrong?

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#217

Post by jl2718 »

I found this to be quite useless for understanding modern propaganda efforts. Mostly this is just telling subjects of propaganda that they are dumb, and they should be less dumb. As usual, this view on other people is incorrect. A proper treatment of actual propaganda efforts, as it is widely practiced, would not be allowed on this site.

Many books have been written about ‘influence’ and other soft power methods. They are a waste of time. In the real world, consent is manufactured by prescribing rewards and punishments. It’s entirely behavioral.

Examples abound. Think of everything you ‘know’, which you have examined zero primary source evidence of, but would have failed a primary school class if you didn’t ‘know’ it. This continues well into adult life and work. The actual truth, or even the actual attitudes and beliefs, are irrelevant. Behavioral consent methods work flawlessly without any requirement to convince the subject.

This is the real secret of propaganda. It’s all you need to know. It works because you don’t have a choice.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#218

Post by nickpp »

wolverine876 wrote: post #110
WalterBright wrote: post #13

Once you learn the propaganda techniques, you start seeing it everywhere in the mainstream media. I used to think about 10% of the mainstream media was propaganda, now it seems like about 90%.

> Once you learn the propaganda techniques, you start seeing it everywhere in the mainstream media. I think it heavily depends on what media you see. The best journalism generally avoids it (i.e., the straight news side). Most journalism isn't in the top few percentile, but you don't need to read anything less than the best. I stick to the best, and when I encounter lesser stuff (e.g., I was visiting relatives and CN…

I remember ProPublica's story from a few days ago.

It was the very definition of propaganda: clearly biased, obviously wrong to anybody who has the slightest idea about finance and obviously working hard to push a foregone conclusion against an imagined enemy ("The Rich").

To my dismay, mainstream media, including the BBC, picked up the story as if it was anything else than bad journalism, thus offering it credibility. Because as flawed as it was, it served their cause.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#219

Post by esyir »

wolverine876 wrote: post #211
nescioquid wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to deny there is any propaganda or indoctrination happening in U.S. education. A commenter asked what it would take to change your mind, and offers a hypothetical scenario as a test (which may have some basis in reality, but excludes that from consideration), and you refused to consider it. Do you think there is any sort of evidence, if demonstrated adequately, that would change your mind? What sort of evide…

I'm not defending myself against baseless allegations, if that's what you are seeking. They made a claim, not me. Let's see some evidence or it's just, effectively, propaganda. Anybody can say anything without evidence.

Man, if you're trying to defend teachers, you're doing a sufficiently terrible job that I'd almost think you were deliberately strawmanning.

You've effectively responded to a hypothetical "if teachers were converted to propaganda machines, would that be propaganda" with evasion that makes you sound like you have something to hide.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#220

Post by esyir »

cbsmith wrote: post #208
flippinburgers wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Critical Race Theory as I have read about it being applied in schools teaches youth that they are inherently racist (note this is only taught to the white children) and that the minorities get to share their anecdotal, lived experience while the white students stand by and are not permitted to say anything. I find the entire formula to be a groundwork for severe social damage. It certainly does not build bridges. Nor…

Yeah, that's not what Critical Race Theory is or how it could be applied to schools. The irony of you bringing this up in the context of propaganda is amusing. There's a good short interview NPR did today with Gloria Ladson-Billings, who has been working on applying critical race theory for education policy for over a couple of decades: https://www.npr.org/2021/06/22/1009182206/academic-who-broug... Be careful out th…

Having seen the media about crt, as well as the way it's applied and the attitudes of its adherents, its pretty close to the truth.

And its hard to argue with the result. Whatever is going on, that particular strain of "crt" is virulently spreading.

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