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Sorry everybody, I failed with you

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Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#211

Seeing a lot of posts like this. Open source is wonderful in its way, but it's really not sustainable to work on projects that make money for other people - including big commercial interests - when they don't help out in any fashion. I'm not just talking money or contributions. I'm talking about simple acknowledgement: "we use project X" - even privately. A open source library that I worked on at Intel (the Hypersca…

Well your comment is meaningful but you could still have recorded the total number of downloads and the monthly number in order to answer how popular is the library.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#212
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think getting your name and work out in the world with open source work is a career _advancing_ move.

I've honestly never been at a job interview where people gave a crap about my open source contributions. They're typically much more interested in hearing war stories from the closed source projects I've worked on. The thing about open source projects is, they tend to be slightly generic things like "file format," "widget library," or "machine learning algorithm" that most companies see as the kind of thing they can…

> I've honestly never been at a job interview where people gave a crap about my open source contributions. They're typically much more interested in hearing war stories from the closed source projects I've worked on.

Counterpoint - I have. Many times.

I created some Perl libraries (most notable DateTime" rel="nofollow">https://metacpan.org/dist/DateTime">DateTime and Log-Dispatch" rel="nofollow">https://metacpan.org/dist/Log-Dispatch">Log-Dispatch) that were used by a huge percentage of companies using Perl for applications (as opposed to simple scripts or sysadmin). This often came up in interviews, and I'm sure it helped me get more and better offers.

Nowadays, as fewer companies are using Perl for applications, it's probably less helpful, but it doesn't hurt.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#213

At my last gig I got budget to bring in the maintainer of an open-source testing library we using for some really important stuff. We paid him $1500 for a couple of days consulting. He showed us how to fix a couple of tricky bugs and gave a talk to the eng team. At this point we've more than recouped the investment. He was psyched to see his tool being used and I feel the visit contributed to him continuing to mainta…

Wow, that never occurred to me, that’s a win-win situation for everyone involved! The maintainer gets recognition and payment for his work, the company learns and has its questions answered. I’ll keep that in mind in my future projects, thanks.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've honestly never been at a job interview where people gave a crap about my open source contributions. They're typically much more interested in hearing war stories from the closed source projects I've worked on. The thing about open source projects is, they tend to be slightly generic things like "file format," "widget library," or "machine learning algorithm" that most companies see as the kind of thing they can…

> I've honestly never been at a job interview where people gave a crap about my open source contributions. They're typically much more interested in hearing war stories from the closed source projects I've worked on. Counterpoint - I have. Many times. I created some Perl libraries (most notable DateTime " rel="nofollow">https://metacpan.org/dist/DateTime">DateTime and Log-Dispatch " rel="nofollow">https://metacpan.or…

Ha. I had actually thought about mentioning that this situation seemed to be very different 20 years ago, but decided I had already done enough blathering.

But, anyway, yeah - I think that this was different 20 years ago, back when open source hadn't quite completely disrupted the software industry and companies didn't yet understand the economics of open source.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#215

Seeing a lot of posts like this. Open source is wonderful in its way, but it's really not sustainable to work on projects that make money for other people - including big commercial interests - when they don't help out in any fashion. I'm not just talking money or contributions. I'm talking about simple acknowledgement: "we use project X" - even privately. A open source library that I worked on at Intel (the Hypersca…

So true, it's really taken for granted. Especially these days with Github and package managers which make it so easy to end up incorporating a dozen or more 3rd party libraries. There's something impersonal about it, and trivializes the amount of sweat that was poured into the code you're npm installing.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#216
As somebody with experience in developing many OSS projects of different sizes (Redis, Hping, Jim Tcl, Visitors web analyzer, and many additional smaller ones), I think that the solution is simpler than it appears: just do what you want. When you are inside the flames of a successful open source project, you may think that the solution space is binary: don't do anything, or do everything people are demanding from you. Instead you can just keep doing what you want, cherry picking what issues you want to address, reply to, what features you want to add, and so forth. Just give you a fixed amount of time to spend on the project (in my case most of the time it was "all the time I've in a day, but up to 6/8 max", but it can be even just 10 minutes every day), and in this time do the things you like to do and ignore all the others. A few issues/PRs will be perfectly aligned to what you feel is right and you'll enjoy taking care of them. Others will not, and who cares?

And anyway, doing things this way I was able to write a database that beaten, in the market, products developed with hundreds of developers while I was alone, so there must be some merit in what the original author feels is worth investing into. So, just do what you want, but:

1. Don't fall in the trap of thinking that who asks you for things is doing some kind of mistake or abuse just because (for example) they are not paying you. Nope, they are fine asking for things, you are fine to ignore the requests.

2. Don't fall in the trap that you are not accountable about the quality of the software just because it's free software: do only want you want, but ship finished work that is reasonably well written and well documented. To do what you want, at your own peace and according to your own personal expectation has NOTHING to do with the quality of your work. Software fails, but one thing is to ship terrible stuff just because "Hey it's free", another thing is to do things the way you want, but with love.

3. When people attack you, reply gently saying what you think. Don't get trapped into fights, don't feed the troll, remember that many criticizing you, if you are stealing money from the table providing something free, have specific agendas (but sometimes they are just assholes), and their goal is to mount a big case. Stop them replying carefully and without anger, then let the discussion end, or continue without you.

4. Make good friends in the process. They'll help you immensely when there are hard times. Remember: the smartest people 99% of the times have a big hearth and are the most friendly.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#217

My technique to avoid burn out is to hack for X duration then take Y time off and let the community fill in the gaps. I'm currently on a 6 month hiatus from OSS, no one has notified me of any fires so I think everything is just fine without me which is how it should be.

OSS like the audio?

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've honestly never been at a job interview where people gave a crap about my open source contributions. They're typically much more interested in hearing war stories from the closed source projects I've worked on. Counterpoint - I have. Many times. I created some Perl libraries (most notable DateTime " rel="nofollow">https://metacpan.org/dist/DateTime">DateTime and Log-Dispatch " rel="nofollow">https://metacpan.or…

Ha. I had actually thought about mentioning that this situation seemed to be very different 20 years ago, but decided I had already done enough blathering. But, anyway, yeah - I think that this was different 20 years ago, back when open source hadn't quite completely disrupted the software industry and companies didn't yet understand the economics of open source.

This still helped me as recently as 2017, so it's not like this stopped being true 20 years ago.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#219
I started appreciating single duty snippets of code instead of creating large abstractions that tie together multiple snippets of code that all work together. I do this to set myself up for success. (Think of it as making the rungs on a ladder closer together).

I haven't fully gone no-code[0], but I am close to it. I also do this to avoid the burnout trap. Working on large projects is physically and mentally taxing and it's only over longer periods, you find the project is actually an insurmountable task.

Then on top of this, FOSS is never finished. Only few projects have a finished feel to them, and even those require modifications and upgrades. This is why forking dead projects is always a great idea, and why FOSS succeeds.

[0] https://bubble.io/blog/no-code-manifesto/

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#220
post #89
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this is a back-firing of the push for people to be "nice" and "professional". Open source maintainers used to have the sterotype of being rather harsh, and basically telling people to f off if they had stupid questions, didn't RTFM or didn't follow cultural norms. And dont get me wrong, there's a lot wrong with that, but maybe it was also that way for a reason.

You can be harsh in a nice and professional way though.

I can't second this enough, and it's the other side of that whole "put your code on Github and use it as a resume". If I'm looking to hire someone, and I look at their Github repository and it's full of nasty, unprofessional responses to PRs and such, it's a pretty safe bet I don't need that attitude on my team.
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