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California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

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Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#211

Post by Morvan »

shakezula wrote: post #103
Morvan wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying to reframe the problem around the people who call it out. That's a good way to distract from said problem but not a way to address it. That kind of drug usage is a manifestation of degeneracy, itself part of a bigger cultural trend. Fixing the symptoms (or rather, absorbing them into legality so they seem less noteworthy) won't get rid of the root cause. edit: to respond to greyface- below since I am no…

The only fallacy being employed here is your own. You have to provide evidence that psychedelic use is somehow morally wrong, or that it causes a problem. So far you have presented no evidence to that end.

Please read my last response above. You people crack me up trying to feign ignorance demanding that the reprehensible part of drug use be formalized like you're some dense automaton. The very fact that half the thread takes offense at my use of "degeneracy" is precisely because I touched a nerve and likely some repressed vice repackaged as morally sound recreation.

I likely have met more drug/psychedelic users than you ever will and could assert there is a near -1 correlation between such individuals and good moral character. If you need a textbook definition of the latter as well, please ask your parents.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#212

Post by dragonwriter »

astrange wrote: post #161
dragonwriter wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> literal armies of drug addicts Literal armies of drug addicts? “Quick, deploy the Third Meth-anized Division!” California has a homelessness problem (largely a side effect of economic success without sufficient redistribution driving housing costs out of reach of the poor, like most states with above average homelessness — Vermont is the most noteworthy exception, with above-median homelessness without elevated hou…

> California has a homelessness problem (largely a side effect of economic success without sufficient redistribution driving housing costs out of reach of the poor, like most states with above average homelessness — Vermont is the most noteworthy exception, with above-median homelessness without elevated housing prices.) It's simply that California's strategy for economic success was that everyone bought homes in the…

> It's simply that California's strategy for economic success was that everyone bought homes in the 70s, then banned any new homes so their property values would go up forever.

No, its not. California hasn't banned new homes, and its not the case, either (even loosely) that everyone in CA bought homes in the 1970s (the 1970s were actually a low point in CA homeownership rate, which reach its all time peak in 2006, and is currently well above where it was in the 1970s.)

There are real state and local policy issues that contribute to the homelessness crisis in California (and some of them—like Prop 13—do indeed stem from the 1970s), but its not, even at a loose and hyperbolic level that might contribute to understanding despite being cartoonishly oversimplified, “everyone bought homes in the 70s, then banned any new homes”.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#213

Post by heavyset_go »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #174
antognini wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to be confused about the significant amounts of homeless people[0] having been dumped into the state by various others It's true that other states have given homeless people in their state one-way bus tickets to San Francisco, but it's a relatively small fraction of the homeless population in California. Something like 92% of the homeless in San Francisco had housing in California before they ended up on t…

“30% of respondents reported living in a home owned or rented by themselves or a partner immediately prior to becoming homeless” is quite low. Maybe some people got bus tickets and crashed on a friend’s couch for a couple of weeks?

Here's the rest of the figures:

> Thirty percent (30%) of respondents reported living in a home owned or rented by themselves or a partner immediately prior to becoming homeless. Thirty-threepercent (33%) reported staying with friends or family. Twelvepercent (12%) reported living in subsidized housing, and 5% were staying in a hotel or motel. Sixpercent (6%) of respondents reported they were in a jailor prison immediately prior to becoming homeless, while 4% were in a hospital or treatment facility, 3% were living in foster care, and 1% were in a juvenile justice facility

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#214

Post by CheezeIt »

kstrauser wrote: post #198
CheezeIt wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually really easy. Colorado marijuana legalization happened in 2014, not last year. So why are you looking at last year’s change?

I produced figures. Your turn. Edit: Never mind, got 'em. Here's Colorado's own numbers: https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety/assets/fatal-cra... Notice that fatalities are up significantly, but so are vehicle miles traveled. In fact, in 2013, Colorado had .0075 fatalities per million miles driven. In 2019, that number was... .0075. In other words, your likelihood of dying per distance driven was almost exactl…

The chart you linked says your numbers are wrong, and between those two years there’s about a 6-7% increase in fatalities per mile, with even larger fatality numbers in the years in the middle.

If you don’t have a dog in this hunt why are you posting wrong numbers, falsely stating there was no increase, and ignoring the deaths from 2014-2018?

[1] 481/470 -> 597/545 is a 7% increase.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#215

Post by fsiefken »

stickfigure wrote: post #153
fsiefken wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, i remember the tragic story of marcia moore https://erowid.org/culture/characters/moore_marcia/moore_mar... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcia_Moore

A clear example of the dangers of astrology.

I meant her addiction and death are a clear example of the dangers of ketamine. The practice of astrology (believing in it or not) in itself doesn't necessarily lead to substance abuse. I'm personally quite interested in astrology as a framework and it's psychology.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#216

Post by jrochkind1 »

hannasanarion wrote: post #130
Morvan wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying to reframe the problem around the people who call it out. That's a good way to distract from said problem but not a way to address it. That kind of drug usage is a manifestation of degeneracy, itself part of a bigger cultural trend. Fixing the symptoms (or rather, absorbing them into legality so they seem less noteworthy) won't get rid of the root cause. edit: to respond to greyface- below since I am no…

> to respond to greyface- below since I am not longer allowed to reply. what you seem to be hinting at amounts to reasoning by extremes, a trite fallacy The word "degenerate" is reasoning by extremes. It signals puritanical zealotry from a palingenetic perspective. Whatever glorious past you think society is de-generating from is a myth composed by people with rosy-eyed memories and an agenda that, were it not for th…

hits the nail on the head, thanks!

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#217

Post by stickfigure »

fsiefken wrote: post #215
stickfigure wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A clear example of the dangers of astrology.

I meant her addiction and death are a clear example of the dangers of ketamine. The practice of astrology (believing in it or not) in itself doesn't necessarily lead to substance abuse. I'm personally quite interested in astrology as a framework and it's psychology.

There's nothing clear about this:

"the cause and circumstances of her death are still unknown"

"there are some conflicting accounts related to her disappearance and death"

You're making a lot of assumptions based on your own biases. I'm pointing out (tongue-in-cheek) that a different set of biases can create an entirely different narrative, equally correlated.

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#218

Post by zenron »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #192
zenron wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Breitbart Doctrine is the idea that "politics is downstream from culture" and that to change politics one must first change culture.} [cited from Wikipedia] Andrew was a man ahead of his time.

And now his name shall forever remain linked with one of the most vile spouts of toxic sludge in the contemporary media. Legacies are complicated.

I mean, I don't like Huffington post but dang...

Re: California Bill to Decriminalize Psychedelics Is Approved by Senate

#220

Post by haskellandchill »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #203
haskellandchill wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who exactly considers that the "classic problem" of prison? Your reasoning strikes me as perverse. This "social contract" is the rule of a few elites with racially charged political agendas over the many, look into the history of drug laws. It's not a just contract if you are manipulated with false propaganda and coerced by force into signing.

> "social contract" is the rule of a few elites with racially charged political agendas over the many, look into the history of drug laws There are a lot of violent crimes with shockingly short terms. Including for repeat offenders. This isn't a problem for elites, who can afford to stay away from these problems. It's a problem for common, law-abiding, unexemplary Americans.

We were talking about drugs, not violent crimes. I believe the police should focus on violence and ignore individual consumption of drugs.
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