Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

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Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#211

Post by russli1993 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

yellow_lead wrote: post #195

whisk wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dam you and he mentioned is Three Gorges Dam built from 1994 to 2003. And the dam in this article, which may related with the extinction of the Chinese paddlefish, is Gezhouba Dam. It was built from 1970 to 1988.

Yes these are separate dams. However, they both have similar effects - flooding of large areas, relocation of people, extinction of species / loss of historical artifacts.

But there is also significant benefits to these dams. Three gorges dam generates 95 TWh annually. My quick google search shows Finland consumes 82 TWH annually. This amount of energy is generated with no emission of co2. China has no oil and gas, hence if its not for these dams, most of this energy will be generated with coal. How much co2, so2, other particular matter will that generate? How much damage will that have on people's health? How many people will get health problems from that? I was in China in the 90s, I remember how scarce electricity was back then. ACs, heating, home appliances, industrial development, hospitals all require electricity. Without this power, people's lives and economy will not develop. How many people will die of poverty (poverty induces health problems from starvation and malnutrition, poverty causes crime, family and social issues). These dams are also crucial for irrigation. The mass famine in the 60s, one of the core issues is lack of agricultural development and irrigation is crucial for that. Another crucial aspect is flood control. These days significant lives and economic disruptions are avoided because of the extensive set of dams to control flood water. The Yangtze River flood of 1998 resulted total loss of 4150 people, and 180 million people were affected. Around 100,000 square kilometres (25,000,000 acres) were evacuated, and 13.3 million houses were damaged or destroyed. A similar size flood season occurred in 2020 and 2016, the damage resulted was much smaller. You cannot simply ignore all these benefits.

The Gezhouba Dam was constructed in 1988s, back then people's understanding of ecology and conservation was poor. And people were starving, economy was so poor that its hard to imagine what it was like back then. I think its not too crazy to think that people would prioritize certain things over others. Today, ecology considerations are very much part of the construction process.

As the article also suggested, overfishing is another huge contributor to ecosystem loss. In 60s, the Chinese paddlefish was being fished and sold like cabbages. By the 80s, fisherman would catch very little of the fish. The poor yield pushed some fisherman to use extreme tactics, like electric fishing and explosives, and that causes even more damages to the fish population. Last year, the yangtz protection law was passed. There is a host of actions there but one of it is complete ban of fishing on the yangtz for 10 years. And there are over 280,000 fisherman on the yangtz. There are also lots of government effort to support their livelihoods and transition them to other jobs.http://www.npc.gov.cn/englishnpc/c23934/202103/8cccd3c25caf4...

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#212

Post by russli1993 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 10:16 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #8

Serious question here - not starting a flamewar. Are there any real organizations in China with power that protect the ecosystem and animals there? From an outsider it seems like they just build whatever they want without any concern for the environment they live in which ultimately will do significant damage to their own human population after the environment collapses and can't support them.

ccp, national people's congress, the political consultative conference, state state council orgs like Ministry of Ecology and Environment, have environmental researchers, experts and advocates. And throughout the years, they have advocated for ecosystem protection, clean environment (air, water, ground, etc), sustainable development etc. I think this website have all of the environment related laws and regulations. https://www.mee.gov.cn/ywgz/fgbz/fl/

For example, there is national protected animals, protected under Wild Animal Conservation Law. http://www.lawinfochina.com/display.aspx?id=22418&lib=law Yangtz river protection law. One of the provision grants government power to ban fishing on yangtz and all of its tributary. Current ban is 10 years. http://www.npc.gov.cn/englishnpc/c23934/202103/8cccd3c25caf4... Regulations of the People's Republic of China on Nature Reserves， http://www.lawinfochina.com/display.aspx?id=12164&lib=law&Se... Law of the People's Republic of China on the Prevention and Control of Atmospheric Pollution http://www.lawinfochina.com/display.aspx?lib=law&id=1178&CGi...

also the constitution of the ccp, the top law within the party, says "The Communist Party of China shall lead the people in building a socialist ecological civilization. It shall strengthen the philosophy underlying ecological civilization that nature should be respected, adapted to, and protected; fully understand that lucid waters and lush mountains are invaluable assets; follow the fundamental national policy of conserving resources and protecting the environment; uphold the principle of prioritizing resource conservation and environmental protection and letting nature restore itself; and take a positive path to development that ensures increased production, higher living standards, and healthy ecosystems. The Party shall strive to build a resource-conserving, environmentally friendly society, implement the strictest possible environmental protection systems, and work to shape spatial layouts, industrial structures, modes of production, and ways of life that are conducive to resource conservation and environmental protection, creating good working and living environments for the people, and ensuring sustainable development for the Chinese nation." my interpretation is that the ccp is at least considering and not totally ignoring the environment. And if you look at banning fishing on the yangtz, transition fisherman to other jobs, pushing EVs, etc. I guess these things come from this principle.

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