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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

chicagomaroon.com

211–220 of 502 posts

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#211

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

Russian here (to be precise Russian Canadian of Ukrainian descent :-)

There is a saying in Russian: if a stranger, on your question "how are you?" (ru: как дела?), starts explaining in details what is happening with him/her - please know, you've met complete idiot.

So I am classifying that 'how are you?' as never ending test of my life position :)

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#212

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

I suspect in "American", "how are you" is often a request for actionable information. Your Russian friend took the question as an absolute, was confused why the doctor was asking a question with an obvious answer, and proceeded to give a reply which communicated no new information to the doctor. The doctor meanwhile was expecting an answer relative to the information he had, and hence took the negative reply as a sign of a sudden ill turn of health.

Similar when interacting with customer service. They don't want to know how you are, they want to know why you're talking with them, how they need to approach you. If you're calling about your cable bill and tell them you're not doing well because your aunt died, well, that's not actionable by them. They want to know how you're doing in the context of your cable bill. Even if your answer is "good, but I have a billing issue", it usefully sets the tone for the conversation in a way that "bad, Aunt Gerda passed away" does not.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#213
Regardless that I look Russian but not, I guess this is one of many cultural reasons why I get along with them so well. Being socially forced to smile and be positive all of the time (toxic positivity) seems fake and mentally-unhealthy to me. I understand wanting to brighten other people's day but to sustain manic/positive/energetic appearance all of the time and towards everyone sounds exhausting.

The other thing I like about Russian culture is, like a cardiologist or a brain surgeon, finding humor in everything (brain surgeons may find less than they were expecting but they're an optimistic bunch).

A CIA agent is sent on a mission in Moscow.

He goes to a grocery store and writes down in his diary "There is no food".

He then goes to a clothes shop and puts down in the diary "There are no shoes".

He leaves the shop, and a KGB agent waiting for him outside says: "You know, 10 years ago we would have shot you for that."

The CIA agent writes in his diary "There are no bullets".

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Cost of living is often lower in America than in Poland (excepting Seattle, NY etc.). So materially the average American is a lot better off. Is it?

No way, only if you look at cars and iPhones. If you include healthcare and education, the median Pole is miles ahead.

Poland is not miles ahead of the US on education at the median, that is not remotely close to being true.

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/education/

Nationally the US is near the OECD middle, and ahead of both Britain and New Zealand on education. Poland certainly scores well, not "miles ahead" well.

About 1/3 of Americans are getting a four year degree these days. The university systems in the US are vastly superior to anything Poland has. A third tier university in the US is as good as a first tier university in Poland. Forget about the second or first tier universities, Poland has nothing like a University of Virginia, Michigan or UCLA (all second tier), much less the elite schools. Which is why Poland isn't producing very much in the way of innovation or economic output. Poland's economy hasn't net expanded since 2008 (even before the pandemic), if their education system was so great it would show up in their economy.

Poland is also not miles ahead on healthcare at the median. The median American has full healthcare coverage and has faster access to healthcare than most socialized medicine nations, including Canada (where you'll wait months or years for procedures that Americans can get in weeks). We're talking about the median here, which is: an American earning $40,000 to $60,000 per year, with health insurance and richer than the median in either Germany or Sweden. The median American also has routine access to the latest medical technology, which the median Polish person has zero access to.

Miles ahead? Nope.

And if we're comparing fairly on demographics, the median white American demolishes the median white Pole, dramatically and across the board. The median white American is among the wealthiest medians on the planet (three times richer than the median Swede or German) and has an extreme income only comparable to nations like Switzerland and Norway. The US has taken on a dramatic amount of third-world immigration over the past ~45 years, which has persistently pushed against its median scoring as poor third world immigrants flood into the US (which debases the median as it happens). It takes a long time to lift the education and income levels for tens of millions of people coming from the third world with absolutely nothing and having to learn a new culture and language. That said, pretty soon the median Hispanic person in the US will be richer than the median German or Swede as well, so progress is occurring rapidly.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#216

But really, why do Americans smile?

One historical explanation is that it was due to the popularization of sales culture in the 20th century which began around the 1920s, and greatly accelerated after WWII.

Another historical explanation, as has been mentioned by other commenters, is that it was due to the popularization of African American culture.

But of course, they are just two of the many plausible historical explanations.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#217
I find this article quaint.

It at one point says:

> It was really different from Europe, where people are mostly polite, but quite reserved in their non-verbal expressions.

but it also says:

> Very often Western people criticize Russians for being too gloomy and unfriendly because we never smile.

It seems to be somewhat undecided on whether the smiling culture is a U.S.A. idiosyncrasy, or a “western" one, and it very much is the former, I believe, the U.S.A. cultural emphasis on smiles is wel known throughout most of the world, including most of “the west”.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#218
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a great quote, though I have a minor quibble about alcohol being necessary as some of the Russians I befriended were former alcoholics and sober for years. Though others drank beer at dawn. I found I made deep friendships more easily after speaking even a bit of Russian. If you can say "My name is X" and "awesome" and a couple other small phrases it helps. That said, it wasn't until I had put in around 1000 h…

Could you give some examples of some Russian words that are more enduring than English words? I've always been fascinated by this.

Молодец, нельзя, фу, тоска, почемучка.

When learning Russian these are just a few of the words I found myself saying even when speaking English. Which gives a hint that a good direct translation maybe isn’t quite there.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#219

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

When my wife was dying (she has since passed away) and nobody could figure out her illness, she'd be in the most wretched pain, in the ER again, and she'd be retching awfully and almost uncontrollably. A doctor would walk in, having heard of all this already and ask "How are you?" Sometimes she gave them the benefit of the doubt, and sometimes she was a bit less charitable. My point? Americans (as she was), Russians,…

I’m very sorry to hear that, for both you and your wife.

I hope any healthcare for your wife was eventually able to manage her pain and make her at least comfortable.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#220

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

I suspect in "American", "how are you" is often a request for actionable information. Your Russian friend took the question as an absolute, was confused why the doctor was asking a question with an obvious answer, and proceeded to give a reply which communicated no new information to the doctor. The doctor meanwhile was expecting an answer relative to the information he had, and hence took the negative reply as a sig…

> “good, but I have a billing issue"

I think this gets exactly to it, but I don’t agree with the rest of your comment.

In both the provided examples, the fact that there's a request for actionable information is already implicitly understood based on the situation. When a doctor comes into your room, you already know they're checking on your condition. The "How are you?" is just general greeting (to which, in casual situations, the proper response is "Fine, and you?").

And this is the crux of the misunderstanding. The Russian takes it as a request for information when it isn't.

*Edit*: A YouTube video pulled from another comment in this thread that explains what I was trying to say much better: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eGnH0KAXhCw&feature=youtu.be

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