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Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

science.sciencemag.org

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Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#211

Post by alvah »

simpleguitar wrote: post #174
nostrebored wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese health authorities not being a credible source of information throughout the pandemic?

I'm not defending what they did, but let's make the facts clear. Initially (december?) they denied there was human-human transmission, and tried to down play magnitude of the virus. And once Wuhan was locked down, they down played how harsh it was, cut out the media (with the excuse of not causing panic). But even before Wuhan locked down, they allowed the release of the virus sequence (Jan 2020), their mitigation ef…

I don't suggest ignoring everything the Chinese health authorities said, that would be ridiculous. "Take everything China allows to be released to the West with a pinch of salt" is a sensible starting point though - you can use it as an input, but you have to be more skeptical of information fed to you by a communist-controlled authority than you would otherwise be, and you certainly don't add credibility by pointing out "the Chinese authorities said so".

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#212

Post by admax88q »

mhb wrote: post #97
auxym wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked in Canada, N95 masks are still about 3$ a pop for disposable, single use masks from industrial distributors. Pre pandemic, we bought 3M 8210s for about 15 cents in boxes of 160. I wouldn't call the current situation available and cheap. Oh, and if you thought surgical masks were mildly uncomfortable, N95s are an order of magnitude worst. They pretty much need a perfect seal with your face and the 3Ms u…

3M 8210s are US $26 for 20 now. $1.30 per mask seems pretty reasonable to me, but I've never bought them in industrial quantities so don't have that anchor. I've worn N95s for hours (actually P95s which have a nicer seal) and I agree that they're less comfortable than less effective alternatives. But it is a bit curious that people are concerned enough to be wearing their homemade mask alone in a car or walking outsi…

I wear mine alone in the car or on the sidewalk frequently.

Not because I'm "afraid" but because I'm too lazy to take it on and off between every stop I'm going to make.

This attitude that people are wearing masks alone because they're afraid and/or stupid is toxic.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#213

Post by in_cahoots »

fighterpilot wrote: post #175
alvah wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"even though the Chinese were very clear about it from very early on" I'm not sure this adds as much credibility as you seem to think. See (for example) - propaganda videos of people dropping dead in the street in Wuhan in early 2020.

True, but there was many other reasons to think masks would work. Its demonstrated efficacy in other coronaviruses and the cultural evolution of dense Asian countries to use masks as a way to combat virus transmission. The WHO and CDC behaved liked total idiots, setting the burden of proof way too high for what should've been a pragmatic, common sense decision made with some uncertainty. Not atypical of bureaucrats t…

I don’t think they were total idiots, at least not from the angle you’re pointing out. The CDC knew masks were effective, but they wanted to make sure masks were reserved for healthcare workers. Remember at the time nurses were given a single mask to use for multiple days, and many hospitals had drives to collect donated masks. The CDC lied to prevent the general public from making the situation worse. Was it worth the long-term loss of credibility? It’s easy to say no, but we’ll never know the counterfactual. For all we know some other issue would have become as politicized as masks were.

To me, this was a glaring reminder that public health deals with more than cold hard science. It’s about ensuring public health first and foremost, given the realities on the ground. See harm reduction as another example. Again, I’m not sure they made the right call here. But it wasn’t due to ignorance.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#214

Post by logicchains »

boplicity wrote: post #178
andreygrehov wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> observational data show that regions or facilities with a higher percentage of the population wearing masks have better control of the coronavirus disease Which is also not entirely true. There are quite a lot of regions (data from worldometer, statista) that have a better control of the virus despite people not giving a crap about face masks. For instance, Florida has 1600 deaths/M vs 3000 deaths/M in New Jersey.…

I don't understand this myth about Florida. It has fared very badly in the pandemic. You're three times as likely to have died in Florida from COVID, as opposed to in Canada. It sits in the middle of the States, in terms of death rates, which overall have been among the worst in the world. Compare your example to an area where people really take masking serious, such as Hong Kong, and then maybe you'll have a valid c…

>Compare your example to an area where people really take masking serious, such as Hong Kong, and then maybe you'll have a valid comparison.

It's not fair to compare the US/Canada with East Asian countries like Hong Kong because the biggest contributor to covid fatality rates apart from population age is obesity rates, which are way lower in East Asia.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#215

Post by logicchains »

andreygrehov wrote: post #210
boplicity wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this myth about Florida. It has fared very badly in the pandemic. You're three times as likely to have died in Florida from COVID, as opposed to in Canada. It sits in the middle of the States, in terms of death rates, which overall have been among the worst in the world. Compare your example to an area where people really take masking serious, such as Hong Kong, and then maybe you'll have a valid c…

It's not a myth. I'm looking at statistics right now. A myth is that Florida has fared very badly (most likely a politically inspired myth). Compared to other states, it hasn't. It's indeed in the middle, meaning that Florida does better than half the states of the USA. It's on par with California numbers, but I've never heard anyone (in the media) slamming very badly on Cali. I honestly don't believe that a mask can…

> I don't have the answer, but it's something else, something foundationally different that makes them less prone to catching the virus.

Compare China to the US on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_r... . Obesity is the second biggest contributor to covid severity after age.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#217

Post by logicchains »

ekianjo wrote: post #77

So one can make a model out of thin air and not validate it, and then write a paper about it claiming to have the holy grail? That's Science in 2021?

>So one can make a model out of thin air and not validate it, and then write a paper about it claiming to have the holy grail?

That's Academic Finance in Forever.

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#218

Post by lt9f423 »

Masks are like the new condoms from the 90s.

Brought to by the same murderous nazi Dr. Fauci:

https://aep.lib.rochester.edu/node/49111

"Anthony Fauci, you are a murderer and should not be the guest of honor at any event that reflects on the past decade of the AIDS crisis."

"Anthony Fauci, you are a liar because you have known for years that CD4 counts are a travesty of a surrogate marker that, through drug company coercion, have been elevated to the status of "a standard."

"You are a pill-pushing pimp that cooperates with drug companies in forcing dangerous concoctions down the throats of a desperate community that is brainwashed into believing that taking a pill, any pill, will help them."

"Ten years of hope? Fuck that. Try a decade of death and greed. Go back to Washington you bastard."

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#219

Post by lt9f423 »

lt9f423 wrote: post #218

Masks are like the new condoms from the 90s. Brought to by the same murderous nazi Dr. Fauci: https://aep.lib.rochester.edu/node/49111 "Anthony Fauci, you are a murderer and should not be the guest of honor at any event that reflects on the past decade of the AIDS crisis." "Anthony Fauci, you are a liar because you have known for years that CD4 counts are a travesty of a surrogate marker that, through drug company co…

downvote all you want nazis!

Re: Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission

#220

Post by edgyquant »

boplicity wrote: post #178
andreygrehov wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> observational data show that regions or facilities with a higher percentage of the population wearing masks have better control of the coronavirus disease Which is also not entirely true. There are quite a lot of regions (data from worldometer, statista) that have a better control of the virus despite people not giving a crap about face masks. For instance, Florida has 1600 deaths/M vs 3000 deaths/M in New Jersey.…

I don't understand this myth about Florida. It has fared very badly in the pandemic. You're three times as likely to have died in Florida from COVID, as opposed to in Canada. It sits in the middle of the States, in terms of death rates, which overall have been among the worst in the world. Compare your example to an area where people really take masking serious, such as Hong Kong, and then maybe you'll have a valid c…

Or Washington state for an example in the US. They take masks very seriously and are one of the lowest in the countries in terms of effected.
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