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WebContainers: Run Node.js natively in the browser

blog.stackblitz.com

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Re: WebContainers: Run Node.js natively in the browser

#211

Hi all- CEO of StackBlitz/author of this blog post here. Happy to answer any questions! (Also, thanks for posting this bpierre!)

This pretty cool stuff. I am wondering about another use case for this type of thing.

We have a CLI tool built with node.js, could we build one of these containers with with the CLI tool setup and expose just a terminal with access to the local file system?

Re: WebContainers: Run Node.js natively in the browser

#212

This makes me want to quit webdev and never look back. Why the fuck are we recreating operating systems in the browser? We already have operating systems. We already have containers. We already have native code execution.

Why is this a problem? Why can't they try out new things?!

My problem with it is that most of the new stuff ends up in production and widely used for cargo-culting reasons.

Re: WebContainers: Run Node.js natively in the browser

#213

This makes me want to quit webdev and never look back. Why the fuck are we recreating operating systems in the browser? We already have operating systems. We already have containers. We already have native code execution.

Because operating systems don‘t support seamless and secure distribution of cross platform software. Web browsers are currently the only secure sandbox we have.

Secure sandbox? Are you kidding?

Re: WebContainers: Run Node.js natively in the browser

#214

This makes me want to quit webdev and never look back. Why the fuck are we recreating operating systems in the browser? We already have operating systems. We already have containers. We already have native code execution.

Because operating systems don‘t support seamless and secure distribution of cross platform software. Web browsers are currently the only secure sandbox we have.

Cross platform, right. So we ignore the perfectly adequate operating systems with their mature GUI frameworks, system calls, filesystems and programming language support, because having separate teams for different platforms is apparently too much, and instead we over-engineer the fuck out of web technologies (both front and back end) to the point people are estimating their RAM needs using the number of Chrome tabs they use.

Re: WebContainers: Run Node.js natively in the browser

#215
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because operating systems don‘t support seamless and secure distribution of cross platform software. Web browsers are currently the only secure sandbox we have.

Secure sandbox? Are you kidding?

What other platform allows arbitrary code execution like the Web does? We have billions of Internet users yet actual security issues are few and far between. It's remarkably safe and secure given the scale

Re: WebContainers: Run Node.js natively in the browser

#217
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secure sandbox? Are you kidding?

What other platform allows arbitrary code execution like the Web does? We have billions of Internet users yet actual security issues are few and far between. It's remarkably safe and secure given the scale

To be safer than other platforms doesn't mean it's safe. And because Chrome is dominating it's a huge target. And at the moment the browser access to the underlying infrastructure is limited.

Re: WebContainers: Run Node.js natively in the browser

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because operating systems don‘t support seamless and secure distribution of cross platform software. Web browsers are currently the only secure sandbox we have.

Cross platform, right. So we ignore the perfectly adequate operating systems with their mature GUI frameworks, system calls, filesystems and programming language support, because having separate teams for different platforms is apparently too much, and instead we over-engineer the fuck out of web technologies (both front and back end) to the point people are estimating their RAM needs using the number of Chrome tabs…

Functionality is often largely independent of platform specific features. Spending limited resources on re-implementing stuff five times over can result in a worse experience for users than focusing on a single high quality cross-platform solution that is easy to distribute and keep up-to-date.

It completely depends on the specifics of the app. Some apps benefit from tight device integration. For others it's a waste of resources that could be spent on features.

Re: WebContainers: Run Node.js natively in the browser

#219
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other platform allows arbitrary code execution like the Web does? We have billions of Internet users yet actual security issues are few and far between. It's remarkably safe and secure given the scale

To be safer than other platforms doesn't mean it's safe. And because Chrome is dominating it's a huge target. And at the moment the browser access to the underlying infrastructure is limited.

>To be safer than other platforms doesn't mean it's safe

Not automatically, but it can mean that, and in my opinion it is true in this particular case. Safety is not defined as the complete absence of risk.

Re: WebContainers: Run Node.js natively in the browser

#220
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For existing code bases that don’t already do DOM manipulation (so, all of them) other parts of the Web API might be more useful, like the canvas, the video API, the RTC API etc.

The issue in general is how to bridge these JS OOP APIs to something that's basically assembler. If WASM gains a foreign object model calling convention or whatever, we're in game.

Wasm is not basically assembler, it's (going to be) very high level:

- https://github.com/WebAssembly/reference-types

- https://github.com/webassembly/threads

- https://github.com/WebAssembly/exception-handling

- https://github.com/WebAssembly/function-references

- https://github.com/WebAssembly/gc

Though it is true that the original MVP was very barebone and could be compared to assembler. However, the reference types proposal has been shipped in all major browsers and is considered "finished".

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