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Golden Handcuffs

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211–220 of 274 posts

Re: Golden Handcuffs

#211
Okay, reality check: the most substantive part of this change is shifting 4-year vest to 1-year vest. This means 75% of the upside an employees stock compensation is taken away. That's the main effect here. The rest of the talk about percentile pay comp targets among peer companies is rounding error by comparison.

If FAANG had adopted this structure over the last 13 years, understand the number of rank and file engineers that became millionaires would have been reduced by an order of magnitude or more. This is just another way for VCs and finance in general to use their knowledge and positioning to skim all the upside on fast-growing companies.

It's one thing for a company to change their compensation policy and spin it in the best possible light—I don't like it, but it's just one company and I can at least hope the market teaches them a lesson. However for a VC like Fred Wilson to try to paint this as an unequivocal good is disgusting. Essentially this "golden handcuffs" argument is saying that rank and file employees who earn above market due to betting their labor long-term on a single company are a risk that should not be allowed.

Re: Golden Handcuffs

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more amusing (or disturbing thing) is that we have created an environment where, practically speaking, investors have less risk than everyone else. We were just hit with one of the largest global disasters of the past century last year and the immediate reaction was flood equity markets with $3 trillion to prop up financial markets. Owners of capital cannot lose. Even before these last few years of craziness, wha…

> The team sold for 8 times what he originally paid, not because of anything he had done, but just because television contracts for the entire league had become so much more lucrative over that time. And what about your part in this play? The brand is valuable because of its fans. I assume you continued to support this brand, and by extension, this man you seem to despise. People like yourself directly contributed to…

And thus… the system isn’t flawed? We can criticize the system and the rich without needing to apologize for it.

Re: Golden Handcuffs

#213
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes, those workers are paid below market rate I like this justification above all the others; it seems both fair and easy to reason about. If I quit a $200k/yr job to work at a startup for $100k/yr in cash comp, then my time investment, or risk, is $100k/yr, and my stock compensation should reflect that financial value based on today’s valuation of the stock.

Without the investment funds, where is the startup getting the funds to pay you 100k/year? Some startups take a while to hit big and the only source of funding is investors. Fair or not, there’s a power imbalance and ignoring that seems foolish. Also, the view you have is biased to the rare success scenario. In the failure scenario, the employee comes out ahead since they at least got some amount of their investment…

I think everything you said is true at face value, but do you have a viable alternative proposal? Do you prefer to believe that financial investment is riskier than time investment, and do you want to preserve the status quo where there’s a power imbalance in favor of money investors? I’m suggesting a way to value an employee’s time investment in a startup that doesn’t depend on speculation or subjective discussion of who’s taking more intangible “risk”. Employees and investors are both sacrificing the same thing to participate: money.

> the view you have is biased to the rare success scenario [...] the employee comes out ahead since they at least got some amount of their investment back.

Maybe you didn’t understand my suggestion, because the cash compensation is not a return on investment. If you forego $100k/yr for stock options, and the company goes belly up, you lose that amount. The cash compensation is keeping you from making a larger investment, it’s a hedge against risk. Cash paid counts against the time investment. Your suggestion is the same as saying the investors come out ahead because they had money in the bank that they didn’t invest.

FWIW, what I’m suggesting comes from experience both as a founder and as a dev participating in a startup. As a founder, realizing that I don’t need to have debates about what skills or status someone is bringing to the table was helpful in negotiations. As a founder and dev, using time as the metric gives me a framework for thinking about stock compensation that can be applied to everyone in the company equally, and gives both parties room to negotiate. As a dev, valuing my time this way allows me to choose my level of risk, as long as the company is open to paying more or less cash, which several in my life have been. And best of all, as a dev, valuing my time this way typically ends up with a higher number than a random offer of some amount of stock where it’s hard to decide whether to accept it because it’s not linked to my effort.

> it’s hard to estimate the value of investors ahead of time just as it is to correctly evaluate an employees contribution.

This is spot-on, and really goes to my point. It’s better to take that idea off the table completely, because there is no valuing contributions beforehand, and no fair way to measure it after the fact - if there’s a way to even measure it at all. Everyone in the company is investing something than can be measured and weighed fairly between people. The people who end up contributing more will enjoy faster promotions, longer tenures, greater chance of success, so they do end up compensated. But it’s a bad idea to try to let people argue about their contribution or value in non-measurable terms, and a bad idea to commit to paying for that before the contribution is made. I know this from experience, letting someone talk me into believing their contribution would be huge, and granting a large stock package, only to find out later when it couldn’t be changed that they were not the heavy hitter they made themselves out to be.

Re: Golden Handcuffs

#214
post #202
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes, those workers are paid below market rate I like this justification above all the others; it seems both fair and easy to reason about. If I quit a $200k/yr job to work at a startup for $100k/yr in cash comp, then my time investment, or risk, is $100k/yr, and my stock compensation should reflect that financial value based on today’s valuation of the stock.

I'd be fine with it not matching exactly. I'm willing to pay some amount of opportunity cost in lost comp elsewhere as an investment in the company. I'd just like the ROI on that investment to not be like 5-10x worse than a VC's.

I’m also fine with it not matching exactly. In fact, I have only ever accepted offers where it doesn’t match exactly. :) But, one thing to keep in mind is that the value of a time investment in a company naturally goes down over time as the company grows larger, and as the company is able to pay more competitively. Investors will get a larger stake because of when they put the money in, all up front. Devs typically won’t get the same stock compensation dollar for dollar, only because the time investment is spread out. My time during the third year might be measured against a company with a much higher valuation than my first year there.

Re: Golden Handcuffs

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize that Coinbase is now a public company? There’s no such a thing as strike price because their stock compensation is likely done through RSUs. Not stock options. Public companies issue an RSU grant at the beginning of employment and at no cost for the employee. Also if the share price goes below the grant date price, you’re likely recalibrated through rolling refreshers.

Terminology aside, the general principle is still the same issue and employees ARE better of with 4 year grants in high growth companies. Let’s say you target RSU comp is $100k per year. Stock is $100 in year 1, $125 in year 2, $150 in year 3 and $200 in year 4. Ignoring inflation and taxes to make this easier to illustrate. 1) initial 4 year grant - $100k x 4 = $400k at $100/share is 4k shares. Assuming you keep all…

[deleted]

Re: Golden Handcuffs

#216
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give out way more stock options, so that the pay is the same risk-adjusted.

Early stage startups should be showering employees with high risk equity and paying less cash compensation. This saves the company money and allows them to hire better talent. Having highly skilled engineers/bizops/designers/sales staff who are incentivized to make the company successful is a huge win.

I'm not really sure how options should be valued, and I haven't negotiated from a position of have a ton of unvested equity. But if an engineer got extremely lucky by joining the right startup, say Coinbase, leaving early might mean giving up a few million in unvested equity.

That's a lot of equity if the startup treats that lost income as if the engineer had invested that amount in the last fundraising round. Options instead of stock, common instead of preferred shares, and risk adjustment should all probably increase the equity amount. I'm not sure that most startups would give mid-level engineers millions in equity.

Re: Golden Handcuffs

#217

One of the things that I love about working for Netflix is that they just pay you every 2 weeks and that's basically it. There are no RSUs that are stacking up, no yearly bonus, etc. No smoke and mirrors. No internal websites to calculate the value of your compensation like at Google. I remember how much trouble the yearly bonuses caused when I worked at Google. In the fall, some people would become much less active…

The opposite side is two of my ex employers (one from 20 years ago) shares are still paying tax fee dividends in my ISA and increasing in value.

If you work for a company that pays you cash money only, you can buy their shares in a brokerage account (taxable or tax-advantaged). If you work for a company that does RSUs, you have to wait for vesting, and it's not consistent money; it's nice when the stock price is going up, and it's not nothing when it's going down like options are, but if it's a publically traded company, why not just pay me the $x/year in dollars and I'll do what I think is right. (Which, for me, isn't going to be holding the stock of my employer directly; I've got enough exposure to them through my paycheck and index funds, thanks.)

Re: Golden Handcuffs

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah but they arent though. 350-400k is actually somewhat low for senior. I wouldn't say this. It's solidly middle of the road for a Google or FB senior, and high/unreachable for an Amazon or Microsoft Senior. Its probably(?) on the lower side for Netflix. This is all before stock growth. Someone who has been a Senior for 5 years at Google or Facebook will be vesting shares that doubled in value, so the take home p…

Actually Amazon commonly beats Google comp, and matches FB. Senior employees at Amazon see the highest comp in the industry. Its less discussed, and really only at the lower levels that Amazon gets its reputation for being cheap and having lower talent. AWS Senior Engineers are top talent bar none.

L6 salaries (equivalent of FB/G L5) are 20-60K lower than those at FB/G (you cap out at 160K or 175K in the bay, which is below the minimum L5 salary at FB or Google). As I understand it, the stock grants can be similar but refreshes are harder to earn than FB/G (since if the stock goes up, you simply won't get a refresh unless your performance is stellar), and you don't get annual bonuses (which are another 30-50K in comp at FB or G).

This is also complicated because the Senior title at Amazon compares to L5 or lower band L6 at G/FB. So your peak Senior at Amazon should be compared to the compensation of a middling L6, which will usually start with a 4.

Perhaps at Principal and beyond the stock grants grow quickly enough to overcome the deficit, I honestly don't know. But I know they don't at Senior.

Re: Golden Handcuffs

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The team sold for 8 times what he originally paid, not because of anything he had done, but just because television contracts for the entire league had become so much more lucrative over that time. And what about your part in this play? The brand is valuable because of its fans. I assume you continued to support this brand, and by extension, this man you seem to despise. People like yourself directly contributed to…

And thus… the system isn’t flawed? We can criticize the system and the rich without needing to apologize for it.

[deleted]

Re: Golden Handcuffs

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The team sold for 8 times what he originally paid, not because of anything he had done, but just because television contracts for the entire league had become so much more lucrative over that time. And what about your part in this play? The brand is valuable because of its fans. I assume you continued to support this brand, and by extension, this man you seem to despise. People like yourself directly contributed to…

And thus… the system isn’t flawed? We can criticize the system and the rich without needing to apologize for it.

You’re right. The “system” is flawed. The poor knowingly enrich the wealthy and then whine about it. Seems to be happening more and more nowadays.
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