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Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

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Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#211

Post by amelius »

sixQuarks wrote: post #197
GordonS wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the biggest issue with all this is the lack of a suitable appeals process, handled by humans. Would such a process be expensive? Yes, but you can't have it both ways, enabling copyright holders to lodge spurious claims at will, and not allow content creators - who the entire platform is built on! - to disclaim them. Would such a process be expensive? Yes, of course - but YouTube can very well afford it.

Perhaps the copyright holder should have to pay for a human review, where the content creator agrees to pay the cost if it turns out to indeed be a true copyright infringement. This would get rid of all bots and most false claims

That would be too much in favor of the little guy, I'm afraid, and probably doesn't align well with preexisting deals with the music industry.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#212

Post by moron4hire »

qwertox wrote: post #46
jeffwass wrote: post #10

Summary for those that don’t want to watch the video : - Pianist creates YouTube video demonstrating how to play Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata - part of this video includes her playing Moonlight Sonata (of course) - YouTube has a new ‘feature’ that scans submitted videos prior to publication to identify potentially copyrighted material - her video is found to include copyrighted material. She is certain this is a mist…

1) Feed a computer with MIDI files of public domain music and render it as audio 2) Upload to YouTube 3) File copyright dispute to YouTube for any (future?) uploaded video which contains the music which used to be in the public domain 4) Have Google reject the videos 5) Create a site or an app which allows you to license that public domain music for a fee. 6) Notify YouTube who has licensed this public domain music.…

You have YouTube's content rating system backwards.

It's not "racey content gets marked special" with "suitable for children" being a catch-all category.

YouTube's "content developed for children", is the special case. It's explicitly content meant for and marketed to children, or content that children would be particularly attracted to, like nature documentaries.

All other content should be marked "not intended for children", even if it's not "adult"--aka restricted to 18+--content.

This is stated pretty clearly in YouTube's documentation. They have a link to it in a contextual pop-up right next to the form field asking you to self-rate the video.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#213

Post by contravariant »

qwertox wrote: post #46
jeffwass wrote: post #10

Summary for those that don’t want to watch the video : - Pianist creates YouTube video demonstrating how to play Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata - part of this video includes her playing Moonlight Sonata (of course) - YouTube has a new ‘feature’ that scans submitted videos prior to publication to identify potentially copyrighted material - her video is found to include copyrighted material. She is certain this is a mist…

1) Feed a computer with MIDI files of public domain music and render it as audio 2) Upload to YouTube 3) File copyright dispute to YouTube for any (future?) uploaded video which contains the music which used to be in the public domain 4) Have Google reject the videos 5) Create a site or an app which allows you to license that public domain music for a fee. 6) Notify YouTube who has licensed this public domain music.…

Unless they've changed this you can get around this by sending the 'embedded' link: " rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/embed/ instead of " rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#214

Post by snickms »

lightlyused wrote: post #173
bredren wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are the “copyright owners” as displayed to the pianist in YouTube’s interface: - APRA_CS - ECAD_CS - SOCAN - VCPMC_CS

I went digging. APRA = Australasian Performing Right Association Limited ECAD = Escritório Central de Arrecadação e Distribuição SOCAN = Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada VCPMC = Vietnam Center for Protection of Music Copyright CS stands for collections society. In another age CS would stand for the Mafia. All but ECAD were found from here: https://www.cisac.org/

These collection societies are actually the opposite of the mafia.

They collect royalties on behalf of the composers. If the composer has a publisher, the royalties are forwarded there instead (so the publisher can take their contractual cut).

They are the only way to protect your work if you are unsigned (think struggling artists).

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#215

Post by ThrustVectoring »

YouTube's system has some massive design flaws. One of which is that the default way copyright holders get treated varies based off whether you're doing automated ContentID type claims vs whether you merely own the copyright to your own work you created.

As a result, you get better outcomes if you own a piece of content-ID'd work that you include in your videos, which is completely silly. Basically, if you copyright claim your own work automatically, if someone else comes along and tries to do the same, worst-case you split the advertising revenue among all the copyright claimants. If you just upload it normally, you get zero if someone claims it.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#216

Post by throwaway0b1 »

chrismorgan wrote: post #43

Along the same lines, I was publishing church services each Sunday between May and December of last year, with three English hymns in each, mostly old ones well-known across denominations. In total, I got 23 Content ID claims (about 20% of the hymns), claiming ownership of the melody. Every single one was for a work in the public domain. I disputed each, providing the name and date of death of the composer. Two were…

I've had the same experience (although I don't remember if it was specifically the melody being claimed). I don't always bother to dispute them (in my understanding, most of them just claim ad revenue, and we don't run ads), but sometimes it annoys me enough that I do. (The organist and people singing are pretty clearly pictured, and I get especially annoyed when it's a capella.)

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#217

Post by chrismorgan »

maweki wrote: post #191
chrismorgan wrote: post #43

Along the same lines, I was publishing church services each Sunday between May and December of last year, with three English hymns in each, mostly old ones well-known across denominations. In total, I got 23 Content ID claims (about 20% of the hymns), claiming ownership of the melody. Every single one was for a work in the public domain. I disputed each, providing the name and date of death of the composer. Two were…

> Every single one was for a work in the public domain. While the sheet music is, the performance by other artists - as your own performance - is not. That's the issue the algorithm is having here (not defending). The automated system would need to "understand" that this is indeed a new performance of a public domain piece of sheet music and not a reproduction of a copyrighted performance by somebody else. Even if yo…

Every time that I’m speaking of it was the melody that was being claimed, not a specific recording.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#218

Post by maweki »

chrismorgan wrote: post #217
maweki wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single one was for a work in the public domain. While the sheet music is, the performance by other artists - as your own performance - is not. That's the issue the algorithm is having here (not defending). The automated system would need to "understand" that this is indeed a new performance of a public domain piece of sheet music and not a reproduction of a copyrighted performance by somebody else. Even if yo…

Every time that I’m speaking of it was the melody that was being claimed, not a specific recording.

I understand that that is what was claimed.

I said that two actual and copyrightable performances of the same melody are arguably indistinguishable.

Edit: How would an automated system know, that you did not just non-transformatively alter another person's performance, instead of performing yourself?

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#219

Post by chrismorgan »

throwaway0b1 wrote: post #216
chrismorgan wrote: post #43

Along the same lines, I was publishing church services each Sunday between May and December of last year, with three English hymns in each, mostly old ones well-known across denominations. In total, I got 23 Content ID claims (about 20% of the hymns), claiming ownership of the melody. Every single one was for a work in the public domain. I disputed each, providing the name and date of death of the composer. Two were…

I've had the same experience (although I don't remember if it was specifically the melody being claimed). I don't always bother to dispute them (in my understanding, most of them just claim ad revenue, and we don't run ads), but sometimes it annoys me enough that I do. (The organist and people singing are pretty clearly pictured, and I get especially annoyed when it's a capella.)

> we don't run ads

Historically Google only put ads when requested by the channel, which required a fairly significant threshold of views and subscribers and supposedly manual review by Google. Some time last year they started a switch towards serving ads on all videos, regardless of the preferences of the channel (whether you’re big or small, whether you want ads or not), which I hear has been progressing steadily further and further. (I wouldn’t know. The internet’s too dangerous to view without an ad blocker. I also just generally hate ads and only see any at all when I leave my peaceful rural environs and go to the big city.)

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#220

Post by havernator »

qwertox wrote: post #46
jeffwass wrote: post #10

Summary for those that don’t want to watch the video : - Pianist creates YouTube video demonstrating how to play Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata - part of this video includes her playing Moonlight Sonata (of course) - YouTube has a new ‘feature’ that scans submitted videos prior to publication to identify potentially copyrighted material - her video is found to include copyrighted material. She is certain this is a mist…

1) Feed a computer with MIDI files of public domain music and render it as audio 2) Upload to YouTube 3) File copyright dispute to YouTube for any (future?) uploaded video which contains the music which used to be in the public domain 4) Have Google reject the videos 5) Create a site or an app which allows you to license that public domain music for a fee. 6) Notify YouTube who has licensed this public domain music.…

http://spiderrobinson.com/melancholyelephants.html

TL;DR copyright becomes absurd surprisingly fast when you have a large population, widely-available authoring/recording tools, and a way to store/search all of them, indefinitely. Like, indefensible absurd.

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