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The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

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Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#211

Post by PostThisTooFast »

ChrisBland wrote: post #96

I'm an avid diver; got certified as soon as I turned 12 years old and have had some great adventures and life lessons diving and continuing my training and education. After many many conversations and encounters on dive boats with others (some seasoned, most tourist / rec divers) - I believe that 90% of the industry sees diving akin to a roller coaster ride instead of Skydiving. The risks with scuba are there for you…

I tell people that diving is a bit like flying. You preflight your equipment, use checklists, and monitor your condition at all times. It's equipment-centric, and one of the best things you can do is read accident reports.

In flying, people die when they accidentally fly into instrument conditions. In diving, people die when they jump in without turning on their air.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#212

Post by renewiltord »

bonzini wrote: post #208
renewiltord wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't sound like the evidence backs this assertion, irrespective of your experience.

What evidence? Evidence that lots of diving places take safety shortcuts? I myself got my first certifications with two amazing divers, they taught me very well and I had a lot of fun. However they also allowed people to take dives that they weren't certified for, because it was a small diving center they could only do two dives a day and they had to satisfy a wide range of divers. They did that with people that they…

Well, presumably if OP statement were true, recreational diving would involve large numbers of casualties. Casualties in recreational diving are somewhat rare, however, at 2 per million dives.

Tourist dives are even safer since they do not perform advanced dives. Overall, the evidence does not support the view "If you really have only a vague recollection of basic safety checks you shouldn't be diving - seriously."

Most tourists diving have only that and they're not dying in droves.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#213

Post by mauvehaus »

notacoward wrote: post #179
ghaff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two biggest things with alpine hiking are probably weather and not turning around when you should. (I could probably add just being grossly ill-prepared like lacking map and compass and perhaps depending too much on electronic gizmos.) Over the holidays I was reading a book about a winter fatality on Mount Washington a few years back. The person was actually very well-prepared and fit. And even had some big mount…

For those who don't know, there are signs around the "presidential" peaks in the White Mountains that say: > The area ahead has the worst weather in America. Many have died of exposure even in the summer. Turn back _now_ if the weather is bad. https://www.reddit.com/r/ScarySigns/comments/ekx3rw/found_wh... They are NOT kidding. Things can go from beautiful to ugly very quickly. 5,000 feet might seem like a joke to so…

Based on the comment about the electronics, GP is likely referring to Kate Matrosova, who perished in positively appalling conditions, even by the very low standards of winter in the Whites.

She died just off the Star Lake Trail, having ascended to the ridge via the Valley Way, which hits the ridge line at Madison Hut (4800', or much lower than the summit of Washington at 6288'). My partner and I have bailed off pretty much exactly her route in the summer when the winds were too high for our experience and fitness levels when we popped up out of the lee side of the ridge line on Adams.

Anybody who wants a really well researched case study should read Ty Gagne's book on her trip and the subsequent rescue attempt.

Incidentally, my partner and I climbed Washington on a guided trip the weekend after she died. The weather was so good the guides had their cameras out to take pictures. The extremes in the Presidentials are no joke, as stated, but can also result in some beautiful days.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#214

Post by PostThisTooFast »

austhrow743 wrote: post #91
ArtWomb wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am certain if you ask 100 beginner divers, 99 will have their own brush with death adventures! Mine came in the form of a six foot barracuda getting a bit too close for comfort. I am sure if I hadn't played it cool. Had somehow attacked or acted aggressively to shush it away (when I was a guest in it's deep sea domain). It would have enjoyed a nice lunch of fresh human flesh. The second was going below the hard deck…

If the Great Barrier Reef is on your bucket list then you really want to get on that asap. It's getting more and more bleached.

Yep. Sadly, I'd say that even now you might want to spend your travel dollars elsewhere.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#215

Post by ant6n »

grawprog wrote: post #155
ethbr0 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First class of dive course at CWRU: Older Navy diver instructor walks in "So I know each of you is coming into this class with different levels of experience. What we're going to do first is a short test on your proficiency for 20 minutes. It will be graded on completeness, not correctness. You are not expected to know all the answers. I'm just interested in gauging what you know. Be aware, there are a lot of questio…

We had a similar one of those in school. The first question of the test was 'read all questions before you start.' Then it had stuff like poke holes in the paper, draw things, random stuff, the very last question though was, 'Now that you've read all the questions, just write your name in the top corner and turn your paper over.' Yeah...a lot of my classmates ended up with holes and scribbles on their tests...

It’s pretty ambiguous, though. In tests you usually complete all questions. Why should you in this instance only complete the first and the last task?

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#216

Post by bonzini »

101008 wrote: post #86
agent008t wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if it put you off! For balance, diving can also be a very magical and surprisingly calm/zen-like experience. The best diving experiences I have had were in fairly shallow warm water (10-12m?) with great visibility. It is amazing seeing see-turtles, schools of fish, corals. It is like visiting a completely different world! Basically, as long as you dive in much better conditions than what you trained/qualified f…

I totally believe you, that diving in shallow water must be amazing and not that dangerous, but now I am scared that some teacher may start there and then "obligate" you to go deeper! "Just a few more meters, everything will be fine" :) Thanks anyway for worrying about me, ha!

Every dive is briefed on the boat. These days they will also have a website explaining the dives, the required certifications and maximum depth reached.

"A few meters more" is not dangerous per se unless you go below 24 meters (80 ft), but I agree it would be very bad to do that without the divemaster telling you before and also without him/her being a certified instructor.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#217

Post by ghaff »

mauvehaus wrote: post #213
notacoward wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who don't know, there are signs around the "presidential" peaks in the White Mountains that say: > The area ahead has the worst weather in America. Many have died of exposure even in the summer. Turn back _now_ if the weather is bad. https://www.reddit.com/r/ScarySigns/comments/ekx3rw/found_wh... They are NOT kidding. Things can go from beautiful to ugly very quickly. 5,000 feet might seem like a joke to so…

Based on the comment about the electronics, GP is likely referring to Kate Matrosova, who perished in positively appalling conditions, even by the very low standards of winter in the Whites. She died just off the Star Lake Trail, having ascended to the ridge via the Valley Way, which hits the ridge line at Madison Hut (4800', or much lower than the summit of Washington at 6288'). My partner and I have bailed off pret…

Yeah, that's the case and the book I was talking about.

The actual accident, while obviously very tragic, wasn't especially interesting. Basically don't try to do a Presidential Traverse during the worst weather in about 20 years. It was actually a different situation from the more common cascading failures mode of accidents.

She made a grave error by deciding to drive up to NH that weekend and a fatal one by continuing above treeline. Even Rick Wilcox (owns local climbing gear/guide store and has summitted Everest) basically says in the book that she was well enough prepared but shouldn't have been out that day.

That said there were definitely lessons around just because you have a lot of experience, don't assume you understand the local situation when you have little to no experience there.

But the search and rescue account was morbidly fascinating. Also demonstrates that locator beacons won't always save you. (She admittedly didn't use it properly but I doubt it would have made a difference given the weather.)

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#218

Post by nradov »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #204
bonzini wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, I am a somewhat experienced diver looking at certifications, but it's all too easy to forget things even if you have more than a vague recollection. Whenever I haven't dived for a couple years, I always ask an instructor to check on me while I prepare for the first dive, because I just don't trust myself. A dive or two later I am okay with helping newly certified divers both on shore and on the boat, but…

> it's all too easy to forget things even if you have more than a vague recollection. Whenever I haven't dived for a couple years, I always ask an instructor to check on me while I prepare for the first dive, because I just don't trust myself. Do you have a checklist?

Here is the recommended pre-dive checklist.

https://gue.com/blog/the-gue-pre-dive-sequence/

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#219

Post by bonzini »

netflixandkill wrote: post #54
dTal wrote: post #19

Idle speculation, perhaps a diver could answer - could it be that the reef forms a kind of natural solar pond, leading to an unusual osmotic (and therefore density) gradient? Thus resulting in divers suddenly dropping like a stone when they hit a certain depth? The Red Sea is one of the saltiest bodies of water in the world.

More likely that the target depth is down near 50m, which is well into the narcosis range for surface gas mixes. Particularly for inexperienced divers it is very easy to not realize what is happening and become too stupid to save yourself. Higher salinity may exacerbate that but not by too much.

> become too stupid to save yourself.

You probably weren't too smart to begin with to go to 50m on compressed air, and without a seafloor at that.

Re: The Blue Hole in the Red Sea is the deadliest dive site in the world

#220

Post by bonzini »

renewiltord wrote: post #212
bonzini wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence? Evidence that lots of diving places take safety shortcuts? I myself got my first certifications with two amazing divers, they taught me very well and I had a lot of fun. However they also allowed people to take dives that they weren't certified for, because it was a small diving center they could only do two dives a day and they had to satisfy a wide range of divers. They did that with people that they…

Well, presumably if OP statement were true, recreational diving would involve large numbers of casualties. Casualties in recreational diving are somewhat rare, however, at 2 per million dives. Tourist dives are even safer since they do not perform advanced dives. Overall, the evidence does not support the view "If you really have only a vague recollection of basic safety checks you shouldn't be diving - seriously." M…

Of course, because things very rarely go south, especially to the point of someone dying. But still, spending half an hour reviewing some basic course material is not a huge thing to ask.
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