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Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

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Re: Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, you wrote "rapid asset inflation". For middle class and below, that can only mean buying a house. There are no other economically significant assets they own. (Cars are a stretch!) For all other items, is there significant inflation? No. "IMF is based in USD" -- Are you not familiar with special drawing rights (SDR)? Please explain if I do not understand your comment.

Although the middle class may not own futures for metals, plastics, lumber, etc they do own consumer goods. These are the inputs for consumer goods and thus my argument was that consumer goods inflation is soon to follow. >Are you not familiar with special drawing rights (SDR) Not really to be honest? but i don't get your point in bringing it up. I know the US has the highest SPR weight by far and that the IMF was cr…

"consumer goods inflation is soon to follow" -- Review this comment in a year (or more). Inflation Bears have been wrong for more than thirty years now. They are forever talking about "inflating is coming soon", yet it never does. Show me inflation (CPI) figures in any highly developed economy that demonstrates serious inflation in the last five years. It does not exist.

To be clear about SDR: US has 42%, EU has 31%, China has 11%, Japan has 8%, and UK has 8%. Is 42% > 31% "highest SPR weight by far"... ? All the non-US majors combined... US does not looks so big. It has been falling for decades as the world economy re-balances.

Re: Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

#212

I don't care why they are doing this, but it should have happened a long time ago. The cynism here is disappointing. If companies start investing their money domestically then excess savings will fall, deflationary pressures will be gone and the economy will start growing quickly again and that means wages will grow too.

My money SHOULD be worth more tomorrow than it is today. Tomorrow the economy is just a tad bit more productive, so my dollar should go further... Why is deflation a curse word nowadays? I feel one of governments only role is to ensure that the dollar is not being debased and slowly losing value of time or atleast at a rate that is known. When the FED prints an unlimited supply of money, it breaks down the social con…

Having money worth more tomorrow than today is how you get a stagnant economy and misery for everyone but the very rich. It's how you depress consumption and investment. It's how you destroy a nation.

Money is not wealth. Money is a tool. The goal, at a macro level, is not to have people having big piles of money. Because money, in and of itself, is not that important. What matters is how the money is used. And the more it's used, the better. Money being used is consumption and investment.

What you call "a better system of stock trading" is called a "bond". It's debt and works similarly to how you described except the reward % is typically fixed.

Re: Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

#213
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One pedantic point Your point is not pedantic at all and in fact completely negates the other commenters counterpoint made to your initial argument. The buying power of the entity you are exchanging in has changed -- for everyone. This absolutely does not diminish your work. It is literally equivalent to being paid in many more bitcoin in 2012 versus today. I am sure there are valid critiques of allowing deflation.…

Deflation causes many problems. For starters at a macroeconomic level it reduces money velocity and investment. If people will make a better return just holding onto their money, then they will be more averse to spending it obviously.

> reduces money velocity and investment

Yes, this is because of the interchangeability of the value of an asset declining and the fact that no one is buying it. No different than a stock price in free fall. Why is it in free fall? Because no one wants it.

Artificial infinite inflation takes away from the buying power of especially younger generations (but average people in general). It inflates the supposed price of assets (in terms of the inflated exchange asset, e.g., USD) which makes it much more difficult for newcomers to gain access to the necessary amount of buying power otherwise.

Think of it like inflating bitcoin. True, bitcoin is worth more. But, it takes a lot more work and time to get more bitcoin. This actually causes deflation to people's labor value and thus their buying power and leverage.

And not all assets will inflate equally. And some assets will receive government subsidies (this is an increasing phenomenon due to the inflating economy) because they are considered "critical" to society e.g., gasoline, milk, and green energy.

Overall, allowing things to deflate and inflate more naturally actually increases volatility which is actually what will increase economic velocity. Trading will increase, and interest will increase because of profitable trading, and thus investment will increase.

So, no, the current artificial and centralized system that thinks it can outgame game-theory is just stupid.

It's just Neo-Liberal/Neo-Conservative hippie baby boomer nonsense to concentrate wealth and power into an aristocratic elite empowered by trillions of dollars of managed retirement portfolios. They simply do not want to allow for natural volatility so that their managed assets are always increasing. It's absolute insanity.

EDIT:

Not that my above comment was perfect, but let me attempt to be more succint.

> Monetary appreciation only helps

Appreciation of an asset only helps the holders of said asset. But "appreciation" is always an exchange rate. Appreciated relative to what?

> A deflationary environment explicitly benefits creditors.

And this is where my contention lies. This dogmatic condemnation of deflation ever being allowed to happen. Temporary deflation or even deflation for some extended period of time is not a bad thing.

Economic velocity runs on volatility and not what one currency or asset is doing relative to another. Inflating and deflating exchange rates only increase volatility. But, truly, only if both types of relationships are allowed and are not artificially snuffed out by government and/or central bank intervention.

And you assume that creditors are the only ones holding an asset? Credit is only one kind of exchange. Spending is another. Stock trading is another. They all depend on volatility.

Thus, I am not arguing for inflation or deflation. I am arguing for the greatest amount of allowance for natural volatility.

> in your proposed monetary environment.

I see that you assumed that I was arguing for constant monetary appreciation. I was arguing that there is nothing wrong with monetary appreciation.

It seem that you and others are deadset on arguing that all deflation is immoral.

My above comment mentions the common root of such views.

> Much like it's difficult for newcomers to buy large amounts of bitcoin.

Yes, I should clarify my bitcoin comments. Bitcoin is deflationary relative to USD (where most "newcomers" are coming from).

BUT, to add substance to my point it should also be noted that there are coins that outperform Bitcoin and are thus deflationary in their relationship to Bitcoin. A newcomer holding these would actually have more purchasing power.

I clarify this to stress that at the end of the day: consumer spending, loans, credit, etc. are all trading. And trading is what makes the economy go around. Volatility is good.

Re: Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

#214
post #151

Wait, no investment in Miami ? Reading tech twitter, folks already claimed Miami to be the next tech hub

As a Floridian, it's difficult for me to understand why we've done so bad at attracting any sort of tech industry. Five, ten years ago, you could simply say that it's Silicon Valley (or Seattle) or bust. But since then, Austin, Denver, NC, Nova, Portland, Nashville and others have all done a really good job of actually competing with California for tech industry growth. On paper, Florida seems like it should be reall…

Florida has some decent engineering schools, so I'm a bit confused why Florida doesn't attract more tech as well.

Re: Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

#215

I don't care why they are doing this, but it should have happened a long time ago. The cynism here is disappointing. If companies start investing their money domestically then excess savings will fall, deflationary pressures will be gone and the economy will start growing quickly again and that means wages will grow too.

My money SHOULD be worth more tomorrow than it is today. Tomorrow the economy is just a tad bit more productive, so my dollar should go further... Why is deflation a curse word nowadays? I feel one of governments only role is to ensure that the dollar is not being debased and slowly losing value of time or atleast at a rate that is known. When the FED prints an unlimited supply of money, it breaks down the social con…

If your money is worth more tomorrow than today why would you spend it today?

Re: Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

#216

I'm probably reading too much into this, but it feels like this and other corporate announcements are channeling a pretty substantial shift in political-economic mood, theory-space or whatnot. They seem to be justifying themselves in ways that were previously unnecessary. If Monetarism really is being abandoned, I predict unpredictable changes to economic thinking across the board. It was definitely impactful on the…

[deleted]

Re: Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

#217

I don't care why they are doing this, but it should have happened a long time ago. The cynism here is disappointing. If companies start investing their money domestically then excess savings will fall, deflationary pressures will be gone and the economy will start growing quickly again and that means wages will grow too.

My money SHOULD be worth more tomorrow than it is today. Tomorrow the economy is just a tad bit more productive, so my dollar should go further... Why is deflation a curse word nowadays? I feel one of governments only role is to ensure that the dollar is not being debased and slowly losing value of time or atleast at a rate that is known. When the FED prints an unlimited supply of money, it breaks down the social con…

[deleted]

Re: Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

#218
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deflation causes many problems. For starters at a macroeconomic level it reduces money velocity and investment. If people will make a better return just holding onto their money, then they will be more averse to spending it obviously.

> reduces money velocity and investment Yes, this is because of the interchangeability of the value of an asset declining and the fact that no one is buying it. No different than a stock price in free fall. Why is it in free fall? Because no one wants it. Artificial infinite inflation takes away from the buying power of especially younger generations (but average people in general). It inflates the supposed price of…

I'm not really sure what you're arguing, I didn't say "infinite inflation" is good lol. Monetary appreciation only helps the buying power of people who already have money. A deflationary environment explicitly benefits creditors. It would be very difficult for a newcomer to get buying power, leveraged or otherwise, in your proposed monetary environment. Much like it's difficult for newcomers to buy large amounts of bitcoin.

Re: Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

#219
post #33

I kind of hate the way Apple phrases their business investments like they're performing some great charitable act. Also, I'll wait for an external audit of whether they're paying all the relevant local taxes before I would consider giving them credit for these "investments" in local infrastructure they're making.

> hate the way Apple phrases their business investments like they're performing some great charitable act Why do you think domestic investment is so economically useless that it must be a charitable act? Cupertino is announcing spend. Spending here is better for people here, ceteris paribus , than spending there. If they announced $430bn in new Southeast Asian contracts, there would be a twin top comment lamenting Ap…

One potential reasons is that a lot of things are more expensive in the states - including hiring.

If they did their massive campus in Eastern Europe they would get a lot of cheap smart talent, cheap building and probably a favourable tax treatment (if they needed even more of that).

Replace with Canary Islands, Cyprus or Malta if you want somewhere with nice weather.

This is part PR, part gaining political favours.

Re: Apple commits $430B in US investments over five years

#220
If this is true, I'm bullish on real estate in Elk Grove, California. Elk Grove is a suburb of Sacramento that is about 1.5 hours from San Francisco. Apple used to have a major manufacturing presence here before they expanded their manufacturing in China. After Apple moved their manufacturing overseas, Elk Grove became a sleepy suburb where engineers from the Bay Area moved their families to get affordable homes and better schools.

Ever since telecommuting for work took off, the house prices have been spiking.

Disclosure: I have been looking at Elk Grove, Folsom, and other Sacramento suburbs as a possible place to relocate my family and team ... my team and I are not happy with the cost of living in SF, and we can get a lot more bang for buck by moving away.

You can get a 4 bedroom, 2500 sqft house in Elk Grove for about 750,000 now (six months ago it was 500,000). The schools are also quite diverse ... over 30% Asian and Indian.

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