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Why the United States has the best research universities

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Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#211

Post by kazen44 »

NineStarPoint wrote: post #72
exdsq wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn’t the rise of the US as a superpower mainly came down to financial gains during World War 1?

World War 2 was the one that really solidifed the US’s spot as a superpower, and in both cases it had as much to do with Europe’s losses from the wars as it did with anything the US gained. It also seriously helps that the US is a gigantic country filled with an abundance of natural resources. Europe destroying itself twice right as modern industrialization kicked into high gear, along with those resources, are what…

also, the US had a major advantage in terms of geography. the country is sided by two major oceans from both sides without any neighbour who could form a threat.

compare this to pre ww1 Europe, which was a tinderbox thanks to multiple empires (with a major history of going to war with each other for resources or people) becoming rapidly industrialised and waiting to get back "their land/people" from a precious war.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#212

Post by jhbadger »

908B64B197 wrote: post #144
wahern wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't just the U.S. receiving that talent. Latin America, particularly Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, and Chile also saw 10s of millions of European immigrants.[1] Germans, Italians, Jews, Poles, etc, as well as Japanese and Chinese. Canada and Australia also saw significant migration. So the mere fact of the emigration of European talent doesn't quite answer the question. The role of European conflict driving emigra…

You might be interested by Operation Paperclip [0]. The US was actively looking for key scientific talent in then devastated Germany to bring back home after World War II. This concentration of talent, coupled with intense investments in fundamental research during the Cold War and better living conditions for scientists made it an obvious choice for any academic to relocate to the United States. Even today, the US i…

Although the Soviets had a very similar system (Operation Osoaviakhim) to get German scientists after the war, although less well known (and also a bit less voluntary on the part of the scientists)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osoaviakhim

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#213

Post by cdavid »

tinyhouse wrote: post #34
aborsy wrote: post #2

Research focus in US and EU seems a bit different. Europe produces a lot of high quality science. Research in US is on the other hand increasingly application-focused (something that EU is not very good at). This is my observation as a former researcher who has experience in both regions; I don’t have references. It’s partly driven by culture, and economic system. The strong public system in Europe supports longer te…

I agree. Also, some universities in Europe, like ENS in Paris, produced more field medal recipients than all top US universities combined. But way more people heard about Harvard than ENS. English helps too.

mathematics have historically been a focus of scientific training in France for a very long time. I don't think it is representative of a more general trend TBH.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#214

Post by ruph123 »

foepys wrote: post #4
aborsy wrote: post #2

Research focus in US and EU seems a bit different. Europe produces a lot of high quality science. Research in US is on the other hand increasingly application-focused (something that EU is not very good at). This is my observation as a former researcher who has experience in both regions; I don’t have references. It’s partly driven by culture, and economic system. The strong public system in Europe supports longer te…

At least in Germany a lot of research isn't being done at universities but at dedicated research institutes. Quite a few PhD students are working part time at uni and part time at one of the Fraunhofer Institutes or at Forschungszentrum Jülich. Another European example is CERN in Switzerland. This model just doesn't conform with all those research university rankings.

Or even more importantly the Max Planck Institutes and Helmholz. Max Planck society is a heavy weight for sure and the co-operation with universities pretty unique as they need each other and are fully public (other than e.g. American private entities like JPL).

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#215

Post by raverbashing »

BalinKing wrote: post #123
tinyhouse wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Also, some universities in Europe, like ENS in Paris, produced more field medal recipients than all top US universities combined. But way more people heard about Harvard than ENS. English helps too.

Citation needed—I see Harvard and Princeton as having 7 alumni each, which combined is more than ENS' 12.

From the list in Wikipedia it seems a lot of researchers move institutions after they were awarded, so maybe that is it. But yes, the score might change with time.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#216

Post by raverbashing »

chestertn wrote: post #109
User23 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed EU CS grads are on average much stronger scientifically than US ones. With notable exceptions, the typical US undergraduate curriculum is more of a trade school. That’s fine of course, but definitely not the skillset needed for novel research or even properly applying recent research. Edit: Apparently I’ve struck a nerve. But this has been my experience working and hiring at two of the FAANGs. The teams…

I would not say that EU grads are better than American grads or the opposite. They both have different set of skills and strengths. My experience is the following: I’m an European grad but did my PhD in the USA . In Europe tests were brutal and you had no help whatsoever from the professors. Your grade in a course was 80%-100% a single final test and lots of people would fail. Also, professors would not restraint cri…

I agree a lot with this, the European educational system is too much "learn by tough love" sometimes.

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#217

Post by raverbashing »

jltsiren wrote: post #137
User23 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed EU CS grads are on average much stronger scientifically than US ones. With notable exceptions, the typical US undergraduate curriculum is more of a trade school. That’s fine of course, but definitely not the skillset needed for novel research or even properly applying recent research. Edit: Apparently I’ve struck a nerve. But this has been my experience working and hiring at two of the FAANGs. The teams…

I can think of a few reasons: In many European countries, the five-year master's is still seen as the primary undergraduate degree, at least in universities. (There may be other more applied institutes with shorter degrees.) When most students are expected to graduate with a master's instead of bachelor's, the program is likely to be more theoretical. Elite schools are a foreign concept in many European countries. In…

> Elite schools are a foreign concept in many European countries

The most well known universities in England, France, Germany, Switzerland are what you can call Elite Schools. Yes, even in technical fields like ETH, École Polytechnique in Paris, etc

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#218

Post by raverbashing »

ur-whale wrote: post #65
boringg wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this vein [but slightly off topic], can anyone point me to high profile megacap EU startups? The only one that comes to mind is Spotify. I was speaking with some people the other day and probably due to a NA centric focus we were at a lack of well branded EU starts up that had made it similar to US ones.

> can anyone point me to high profile megacap EU startups Don't waste your time looking, there are none or almost none. EU is simply not geared (anymore) for this type of endeavor to succeed: - finance infrastructure for this is non-existent (VCs are a joke in Europe, both in terms of size and in terms of the type of stuff they invest in) - risk-taking is simply not a cultural value anymore - administrative burdens (…

This is not so much a list of "reasons" (though there are levels of impact), it is more a list of, maybe "excuses".

Because I could come up with a big list of reasons why the US would be a bad place to start a company with. It is a good place to start, but even then most of the top high-earners companies are located into 2 or 3 very small geographical areas in the whole US.

China has many more impediments/bureaucracy than the EU (though maybe in different areas) but they have $$$ so problem solved.

Also Americans are very blind to what happens "on the other side of the pond" especially the non-English world. Mojang was bought for $2.5B JustEat/Takeaway is $13B Marketing Cap

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#219

Post by HatchedLake721 »

codethief wrote: post #140
bla3 wrote: post #8

The US has the best research universities in part because it's socially accepted, even expected, to call anything remotely good "the best" over here. People are a bit more restrained elsewhere. For universities, they're admittedly the best by several objective measures too, but the willingness for self-promotion helps :)

This. I hope I won't offend anyone here but there's a story that seems quite appropriate: When I was still living in the US, an acquaintance of mine once asked me, "So don't you think the United States are the best country in the world?" I was absolutely baffled. Putting aside for a moment that the US clearly did not rank "best" on so many scales, the question (to me, as a European) didn't even make much sense in the…

Reminded me of this https://youtu.be/4fTkA3dvpPM

Re: Why the United States has the best research universities

#220

Post by HatchedLake721 »

philzook wrote: post #157
codethief wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I hope I won't offend anyone here but there's a story that seems quite appropriate: When I was still living in the US, an acquaintance of mine once asked me, "So don't you think the United States are the best country in the world?" I was absolutely baffled. Putting aside for a moment that the US clearly did not rank "best" on so many scales, the question (to me, as a European) didn't even make much sense in the…

America invented many things, but we did not invent nationalism. It is natural to feel good things about a place where all your loved ones live and has a language and culture that is familiar to you. You really think it makes no sense to Europeans to think of their country as "the best"? It seems to some degree to be the character of most right wing parties I'm aware of that this is a part of their stance. But also,…

This list made me laugh and made me worried I missed a sarcasm somewhere. I’ll give you best movies because of Hollywood, but everything else, really?

Have you travelled much outside the US? It’s seems so weird to hear “USA the best because breakfast, coffee, and McDonald’s”, it sounds like a cliche.

What do you mean by jacked?

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