Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#211

Post by Alupis » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #204

Alupis wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot find similar rhetoric from the US vowing to destroy China. In fact, you'd find the exact opposite. Your other points rely on a rational actor... rational actors don't take freight ships hostage nor kidnap tourists.

> rational actors don't take freight ships hostage not kidnap tourists. Israel has kidnapped tourists before. Vanunu is still trapped in Israel. Where has Iran said that they intend to use nuclear weapons?

> Israel has kidnapped tourists before. Vanunu is still trapped in Israel.

Mordechai Vanunu? His situation is quite a bit different than kidnapping a tourist that literally has done nothing to Iran except show up - or a freight ship traversing international waters. Vanunu leaked a ton of nuclear secrets about Israel and fled - ie, he was no tourist and your point makes no sense.

Whataboutism isn't a good reason to excuse Iran's extremely poor international behavior, nor condone their relentless threats against Israel and other nations (including the US). Nor does whataboutism excuse Iran's direct funding of terrorist groups that have killed Americans and other nationals alike.

With all these discussions, it's important to note the regime of Iran is not the people of Iran. The people are likely amazing and full of culture and history - the regime is oppressive and aggressive, which is not tolerated in modern times.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#212

Post by jfengel » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

heavenlyblue wrote: post #65

devoutsalsa wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like how the Galactica survived in the 2003 BSG reboot. All of the critical systems (fire control, navigation, life support, etc.) were standalone & not networked. The baddies took out all of the new ships & defense networks with a computer virus, and the old Galactica couldn’t be hacked that way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(fictiona...

What does it even mean to “not be networked” and on a Galactic spaceship? I can imagine all of those systems need to communicate within their domain somehow, so they need to be connected. You could make a point that they have “not been connected to the internet”, but then it only takes one node to become a bridge between WAN and LAN and you are Pwned. It’s even worse now because there’s a tendency in software develop…

They're talking about a TV show[1], where one early episode revolved around the fact that they had avoided connecting the computers to keep the bad guys out. (Sorry if I'm telling you something you already knew; the question you started with made it unclear.)

The show created an aesthetic like an old submarine, even using set pieces salvaged from other submarine movies. That was an aesthetic choice, making everything look cluttered and cramped and slow, increasing tension in exactly the way old submarine movies used to. In those movies, the computers weren't connected because they didn't exist. Actions were coordinated by phone.

It's a bit contrived that they had computers but not networks. It was just a conceit of the show, and actually it was really mostly just in that one episode. But the aesthetic carried through and made for great atmosphere.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2004_TV_...

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#213

Post by cwkoss » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

hoka-one-one wrote: post #194

whimsicalism wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, what was this about "not being governed by religious law"? > full rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ So not full rights for religious minorities. Moreover, conversion is quite difficult and the process is made much easier if you have a parent who is Jewish (which generally forms an ethnic group). Only recently were non-Orthodox conversions recognized for this purpose: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/01/wo…

It's important for people to understand that Judaism is a minority religion that has been historically persecuted. There is nothing wrong with working to preserve the tradition and culture, and if it ends in a small amount of ethnic homogeneity then it has to be accepted as necessary, especially since "Jewish" is both a religion and an ethnicity, so in the current historical context failing to preserve Judaism means…

> There is nothing wrong with working to preserve the tradition and culture, and if it ends in a small amount of ethnic homogeneity then it has to be accepted as necessary

"a small amount of ethnic homogeneity" seems like a deliberate minimization.

Israel is an apartheid state that has been persecuting based on ethnicity and religion for decades.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#214

Post by dogma1138 » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

aborsy wrote: post #178

Frankly, Israel needs to stop waging these wars in the Middle East. Apart from moral issues, they impact everyone. The refugee crisis is affecting us Europeans. We paid the cost for US wars. JCPA was working, except for a small group that benefit from its cancellation. Iran agreed to remove its uranium under strict checks and verifications. Why killing it?

Israel haven’t waged any wars that resulted in the refugees that are moving into Europe.

Libya and Syria is your mess.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#215

Post by bosswipe » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #51

> To mark the event and send a message to its negotiating partners, technicians at Natanz began to operate a small batch of IR-6 centrifuges as well. The majority of centrifuges at Natanz are a model known as IR-1, which is much less efficient at enriching uranium than the IR-6 design. The nuclear agreement signed with Iran in 2015 (known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, or JCPOA) limited it to using only I…

Trump violated the JCPOA first. Why should Iran hold up their side of a broken agreement? The JCPOA was working fine but Netanyahu didn't like it because he wants to destabilize Iran.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#216

Post by Protostome » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

dyingkneepad wrote: post #116

Protostome wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such a thing as "rights" in international affairs. International relationships are not managed by what's right or wrong, but according to countries' interests and needs. Now, under this paradigm, we as the free world have to ask ourselves - is it of our interest that Iran will gain access to nuclear weapons? The answer is absolutely no.

Would you please elaborate why? It's not very clear to me.

I assume you are asking why Iran shouldn't have nuc. weapons.

A detailed answered would require several pages, but in short - Iran and the west have opposing views and conflicting interests. The western interests would be put in compromise if Iran gains such a leverage.

As a theocratic regime, Iran has been actively exporting it's shiite fundamentalist ideology by force (from Yemen to Lebanon and even some non-muslim countries in South America). It would be naive to think that Iran will stop there.

For example, just imagine what would happen if a nuclear Iran invades Saudi Arabia and take over its oil fields.

Or if a nuclear Iran decided to block the Suez canal, effectively cutting off all of Europe from China, India and Japan.

They don't have to use nuclear weapons to inflict damage upon the west.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#217

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

aborsy wrote: post #178

Frankly, Israel needs to stop waging these wars in the Middle East. Apart from moral issues, they impact everyone. The refugee crisis is affecting us Europeans. We paid the cost for US wars. JCPA was working, except for a small group that benefit from its cancellation. Iran agreed to remove its uranium under strict checks and verifications. Why killing it?

[deleted]

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#218

Post by cwkoss » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

waterside81 wrote: post #43

yummypaint wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the other day i was watching a video of protestors taking down a drone with hundreds of laser pointers. People are literally having laser battles in the streets with police robots. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=drone+lasers+protestors&t=fpas&iar...

Why does this work?

I think most drones wouldn't be 'taken down' by lasers: flight control and GPS should still work fine. But seems reasonable that enough lasers could blind the camera, eliminating it as a surveillance asset.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#219

Post by ars » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #174

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elaborate on what you think they should see in the mirror.

If one person thinks you're an asshole they might simply be wrong about you. If everyone in the world thinks you're an asshole then you, almost by definiton, are one. There's a reason why there's a separate word in most languages for "anti-semitism" but not for "anti-italianism" or "anti-brasilianism".

I see you are not even pretending not to be antisemitic. Most antisemites hide under cover of "anti-zionisim".

And to other people reading this, this poster seriously thinks that antisemitism is because "all Jews are assholes". I'm truly shocked to see such things on this site, although maybe I should expect that.

Re: Israel may have destroyed Iranian centrifuges simply by cutting power

#220

Post by aborsy » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

recuter wrote: post #188

aborsy wrote: post #178

Frankly, Israel needs to stop waging these wars in the Middle East. Apart from moral issues, they impact everyone. The refugee crisis is affecting us Europeans. We paid the cost for US wars. JCPA was working, except for a small group that benefit from its cancellation. Iran agreed to remove its uranium under strict checks and verifications. Why killing it?

Gosh, well if it is effecting Europeans, dear oh dear.. The ME is just this peaceful relaxed place that wouldn't have any conflicts if it weren't for Israel blowing up Iranian centrifuges whose sole purpose is the fabrication of nuclear weapons, eh? Lets just give nukes to Iran and Iraq and Syria (the later two Israel was similarly criticized for blowing up in previous decades, with Iran cheering Israel on in the 90s…

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that Israel is responsible for ME problems.

On this topic, Israel has significant nuclear weapons. Iran’s pursuit of weapons is likely a deterrence strategy. Thus a good way forward is to work constructively with countries in the region towards establishing a nuclear free zone that includes Israel, Iran and Pakistan.

JCPA was a step towards that direction, which could potentially be extended to a broader agreement that gradually includes other countries as well.

We really need to get away from these powerful weapons. The crises of past decades have shown us that the issues that we are facing are global.