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34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

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Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#211

Post by shaftway »

I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I am chomping at the bit to get back into the office.

I'm a Senior SWE. I've got ADHD. Work from home has been *catastrophic* for me. I don't have the ability to focus. I have no space in my home where I can work distraction-free, and no ability to create a space separate from my family. From home I can slack off for an hour... or two... or days, and nobody notices because my projects don't have deliverables that are measured in less than weeks. So I end up spending way too much time on non-work things and then berate myself for it afterwards. And then I do the same thing the next day.

Being in the office gives me an externally-imposed structure that I just don't have the capability to impose on myself. I had the freedom to pick a few days here and there to WFH as needed, so I understand and can occasionally use the benefits. I also miss out on the serendipitous conversations. I know that a lot of people discount this as hand-waviness, but my team's culture around texting is disruptive in a way that I used to avoid in person. I felt like I had a much better handle on things in the office.

My spouse runs her own company, and she has a free office, so I've been using that twice a week, and I make sure to medicate these days to make the most of them. But my output is still significantly lower than when I was in office. And I don't want to move to every day medication for a variety of reasons.

I've read the comments suggesting that middle management thinks that their perceived impact is threatened in a work from home environment, but I am clearly not in that demographic. My work is either writing design docs and getting approval, leading a team to build these designs, or getting my hands dirty with the code itself.

I don't care if other people work from home, as long as I'm not completely alone in the office. I just need the structure back.

I feel like a junky who just needs "one more" whiteboard fix.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#212

Post by foobiekr »

maxharris wrote: post #191
mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warehouse workers were never working remotely, they got laid off. Re: your last point: 1. That 34% would quit rather than return doesn’t mean the other 66% would prefer to, just that they might not quit over it. 2. It’s possible to employ both remote and on-site workers.

Warehouse workers were never working remotely, they got laid off. That's not what this report by the BBC says https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54431056

Four warehouses on a test basis and that’s the positive spin from the startup making the claim. Please apply some well-earned skepticism.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#213

Post by Teknoman117 »

tezzer wrote: post #160
politician wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do your colleagues feel the same way? Would you inflict office work on them if they don't?

Several do, the few times I've gone into the office and done a little problem solving with the folks who were there, we accomplished like a week of work in an hour. There's something about putting heads together that's hard to replace. Some of our folks have always been ~90% remote and that's fine, but I think they're missing out on one of the joys of engineering.

The main thing I miss is all the ad-hoc technical discussions about work or (usually) random topics over lunch. We went out nearly every day for an hour or more and had fun conversations. I miss it dearly. With everyone using their normal lunch times for running errands or just working more, we've had very few social meetings since WFH started.

It's just so damn lonely.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#214

Post by duckfang »

Scarblac wrote: post #62
bigth wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because life doesn't exist outside of work?

Why only have life outside of work, and not both?

Because your "family's parents" (aka: managerial class) have absolutely no compunctions about firing you at the drop of a hat, and thus evicting you from your "work family". I'm not saying to be rude - be nice obviously... But these people, you included, are working for money at a place that has money.

And I would much rather have the time and socialize at events and places that aren't related to a work function. In that case, me leaving a job for whatever reason doesn't automatically remove my "friends". (And no, I don't think many are actual friends at a workplace. Politics and decorum are definitely a thing.)

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#215

Post by greedo »

macintux wrote: post #81
spockz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. Why is it more rude to call someone on teams where they can just decline the call than to swivel in your chair and start talking to them? If anything, I think etiquette has improved in our situation. No more in person interruptions or people just hovering at t…

> Why is it more rude to call someone on teams where they can just decline the call than to swivel in your chair and start talking to them? In the office, you can generally observe the state of your co-worker. Are they on a phone call? Are they already talking to someone in person? A phone/Slack/Teams call can be quite disruptive if someone is already in a meeting. We haven't fully adapted work culture to remote work…

With Teams you can set your status and ignore a message as well. I can't ignore someone who barges into my cubicle with a problem they feel is Sev 1.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#216

Post by falcolas »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #137
mulmen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

34% being unwilling to work in offices does not imply not the 66% prefer to work in offices. It is entirely possible (however unlikely) that 100% of people prefer to work remotely but that 34% demand it. You just can't infer anything about the preferences of the 66% based on the preferences of the 34%. Some jobs have to be done in person, sure. But some jobs don't. Personally the extra two hours a day and reduced str…

Have you considered that the reason why you aren't missing face-to-face meetings is because everyone is forced to do full time remote? My team is really dreading the move to back to office, but I couldn't be happier. I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I…

> My team is really dreading the move to back to office

> the amount of time I sit in voice chat with the remote team memebers during the day will be close to zero on the days I am at the office.

Can I be frank? This sounds like an incredibly selfish attitude to take. "If you're not like me, I have no intention of accommodating you."

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#217

Post by ironmagma »

foobiekr wrote: post #210
ironmagma wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My CEO sent out a company wide email admitting we had succeeded in becoming a remote company, and proceeded to tell us remote work is not an option going forward. So... no.

It would be amazing to see such an email. Did anyone challenge it?

I think it will be challenged by hordes of people leaving as the back-to-office date approaches. They said that exceptions may be granted on a case-by-case basis (because people have already been hired remotely, and on top of that the CEO himself has been working remotely since pre-Covid, so their hand is forced) with approval from the exec team. As for sharing the email, I don’t have a (full) deathwish.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#218

Post by foobiekr »

dokem wrote: post #199
aroundtown wrote: post #132

Give me a dedicated office with a door that can shut, allow me to commute during off-peak rush hours, and raise my pay or shorten my work hours for the same rate... then we will talk about coming back in. Currently: I have an dedicated office at home, I can shut my door and work when I need to be distraction free. I don't have my head pinched by headphones for hours, and I can work in silence like I prefer. No cowork…

I switched to a job where I have an office for the first time and it really makes me question HTF open layouts have cough so much traction among employees. I think there was a push away from 'boring' offices and now no one even remembers or knows what having an office is like. I also don't buy the idea that there is really any hindrance to collaboration or casual socialization around the office. And no more packing u…

I’ve had an office and it was a miracle. The best of both worlds.

I’ll take full height cubes as a fallback. Open layout is the worst, I actually just go work from the lab.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#219

Post by mulmen »

Closi wrote: post #198
mulmen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would imagine that your job description, if it exists, includes language such as "teamwork," "mentoring," and "problem solving" Yes, all of those things are true and I do all of those things. I am speaking specifically about interrupting a coworker who is doing productive work. > "siloed," "completely independent," and "unanswerable to anyone." I didn't say anything about this. Respecting your coworkers time does…

> "As my coworker you have no right to my time, at all. Certainly not on-demand. You are in no position to prioritize my time, especially in the context of you finishing your task. You are blocked by whatever you are blocked by. Solving your problems is your problem. Not mine." What part of this statement says 'team player' to you? The whole part about working as a team-player is that solving their problems is your p…

> What part of this statement says 'team player' to you?

The part where each member of the team is trusted with their own time management. I will also not interrupt you when you are working, because I respect you and your time.

> The whole part about working as a team-player is that solving their problems is your problem, because it is the teams problem.

Yeah, no. The team has problems so we divide the work. Each of us takes ownership for some small part of it. Asking for input from teammates is fine, that is the responsibility of that owner. But that doesn't mean they can interrupt someone to get it. To be an effective teammate you need to earn the respect of your peers and interrupting will undermine that trust long term. Obviously I want my coworkers to solve their problems because we all work toward a common goal and of course I provide input to help them do that.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#220

Post by shaftway »

shaftway wrote: post #211

I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I am chomping at the bit to get back into the office. I'm a Senior SWE. I've got ADHD. Work from home has been * catastrophic* for me. I don't have the ability to focus. I have no space in my home where I can work distraction-free, and no ability to create a space separate from my family. From home I can slack off for an hour... or two... or days, and nobody notices because m…

More context that didn't really fit in.

Like I said, I'm free to WFH as I see fit as is. I probably averaged WFH less than one day a week, but sometimes it was as many as 3 days.

I've done remote work for ~3 years for a few companies. This only worked because their expectations were significantly lower than my capabilities, so I was able to coast through with ~2 hours of work per day.

As my role has increased, expectations have risen to match my capabilities. But I strongly feel like I only have those capabilities in the office.

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