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The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

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Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#211

Post by tgv »

rowanG077 wrote: post #207
tgv wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That position is too naive to be honest.

I think the reverse is too naive. We see the exact abhorrent results that occurs when hosters are made liable. Look at youtube for example. There is no novel content any more. Everything that could offend someone is removes or demonitized. What good does forcing a hoster to police their content? Do you think child porn will suddenly not exist anymore? Do you think child porn producer think "oh no, my website was take…

The good it does is spreading it less. Demanding that a measure has to eradicate child pornography in order for it to be acceptable is ridiculous.

Hosting companies take responsibility, because they knowingly and willingly host content that's beyond the jurisdiction of the company's country's legislature. It can't be that a string of copper wire across a border is enough to remove liability.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#212

Post by kome »

0dayz wrote: post #203
kome wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

often northern Europe is like this... or Switzerland. I have seen incredible stuff in Switzerland.

What are you saying? That criminal gangs are rampant in Switzerland or that the Swiss do incredibly well in fighting corruption?

That criminal activities are rampant in Switzerland, but the Swiss don't care.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#213

Post by aden1ne »

FabHK wrote: post #124
mustafa_pasi wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But actually the opposite is happening in the Netherlands. There are drug labs basically everywhere in the countryside. All global organized crime syndicates have a local presence. With regards to prostitution, human trafficking has actually increased and prostitutes get imported and pimped out. Half the business is legal so the police have even less incentive to care, especially if the victim and the pimp are both f…

Oh wow, I didn't realise it was so bad.

The Netherlands may even have the worst drug laws in existence. Cannabis is not legalized, it's "tolerated". This means it's legal to sell and buy cannabis, but it is _not_ legal to grow it in any sizeable quantities[note]. This means the legal part of the cannabis sector relies exclusively on criminal activity. So instead of replacing the criminal business model, it instead depends on it.

Note: Since 2020 there have been some minor experiments with letting municipalities grow cannabis.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#214

Post by FDSGSG »

tgv wrote: post #211
rowanG077 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reverse is too naive. We see the exact abhorrent results that occurs when hosters are made liable. Look at youtube for example. There is no novel content any more. Everything that could offend someone is removes or demonitized. What good does forcing a hoster to police their content? Do you think child porn will suddenly not exist anymore? Do you think child porn producer think "oh no, my website was take…

The good it does is spreading it less. Demanding that a measure has to eradicate child pornography in order for it to be acceptable is ridiculous. Hosting companies take responsibility, because they knowingly and willingly host content that's beyond the jurisdiction of the company's country's legislature. It can't be that a string of copper wire across a border is enough to remove liability.

ISPs and computer manufacturers should be held liable for enabling their customers to access child pornography too, right?

Lets not forget about camera manufacturers either, they're the real villains here.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#215

Post by DanBC »

nightwing wrote: post #149
obedm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"images of child abuse are not child abuse". Right. Because those images were just created magically? Someone took them. And there's a market for them. If there's no market for such pictures, likely less children will suffer the consequences. Fighting the crime directly is important, but so is doing it indirectly. Read about the suicide rates in the UK by women before and after the country changed the type of gas sto…

The law handles drawings and 3d graphics the same way as real images. The attempt to fight indirectly clearly had not succeeded so far. And most often is used as a pretext for introducing mechanisms that afterwards are used for censorship. I don't advocate for one policy or another. In fact i'd be happy if i was wrong and the fight with numbers was actually useful, but logic tells that it isn't.

> The law handles drawings and 3d graphics the same way as real images.

No it doesn't.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#216

Post by athrowaway3z »

InCoffeeWeTrust wrote: post #136
irq wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the article. > If the companies that give IP Volume access to the rest of the internet were all to decide to stop doing so, the company could no longer operate on the internet. This is called de-peering, and it does occur very sporadically. > But it is highly controversial, says Guilmette. It flies in the face of the voluntary, decentralised structure of the internet. That is why the largest hub, the Amsterdam I…

Like someone else said, it seems that AIE is trying to avoid higher charges in regard to implementing oversight measures. The oversight measures should have been there a long time ago. It's like youtube saying that they're simply "a highway" for video hosting. If it's moving through your platform, you have to be aware of what it is. There are police monitoring highways, there is extensive monitoring on youtube, so wh…

Do you have a stake in this article? Because from my point of view an account created 10 hours ago is rambling off technically incoherent straw-man on a tech focused forum.

Its like saying the postman most open, read and understand every piece of mail before delivering it, and the police must search inside every car before it may drive on the road.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#217

Post by Aeolun »

charcircuit wrote: post #159
Aeolun wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since that provides viewer logs that law enforcement can investigate and likely make more arrests By that logic we should leave it up indefinitely? I find it hard to say that even a full illegal football stream hurts more people than even a second of leaving child pornography up.

>By that logic we should leave it up indefinitely? You probably don't want to continue hosting it as some visitors to your website might leave your site or it may cause PR issues if you keep it up. >than even a second of leaving child pornography up There is no harm do doing that. Child porn is a single internet search away and people into that kind of stuff probably already have those kind of sites bookmarked. A few…

I don’t follow this logic either. You are saying that since child porn exists elsewhere we might as well leave up the stuff we find and have the ability to do something about?

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#218

Post by edf13 »

vimax wrote: post #199
edf13 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be no upper level you start caring about child protection - every level counts, whether it is a hosting company or others high up

When did I say I didn't care about protecting children? I said I didn't care about a hosting company throwing DMCA complaints in the trash, and I refuse to give into any bullying that says supporting free speech is the same thing as hurting children.

When? Here

> I might care more once laws start protecting children from those in power more than used by those in power as a ploy to dismantle privacy from ordinary people.

In response to a thread comment regarding to the said hosting provider making it purposely difficult to report such matters...

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#219

Post by rocqua »

athrowaway3z wrote: post #208
InCoffeeWeTrust wrote: post #130

Almost every entity has oversight measures implemented to safeguard it from criminal negligence. The laws in the Netherlands need to be updated to ensure that data hosting centres and their owners can't get away with criminal negligence. And to everyone complaining about this with a "but my free speech" excuse - there are extensive legal procedures which ensure that allegations of criminal negligence are conducted op…

Free speech is important as you state so yourself. You seem to fundamentally misunderstand one of the most important WHY of the "digital free speech" argument. Technologically the state can't enforce it. So if you get your wish you made a law that only spies on law-abiding citizens. In your plea we can simply start here: "data centres to be aware of the content which is hosted" Is the datacenter responsible for the c…

Simply mandate the rules, hunt down any data centers that don't follow them, and ban ISPs from providing them internet.

This pushes all of the mainstream providers into compliance. At that point you get specialist criminal providers, which you can target with much more prejudice.

Re: The cesspool of the internet is to be found in a village in North Holland

#220

Post by rocqua »

zabzonk wrote: post #70
orhmeh09 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a hotspot for drugs trafficking, yet with a pristine official record of corruption, ranking as one of the ten least corrupt countries in the world. These seem incongruous, somehow.

>yet with a pristine official record of corruption A pristine record with whom? I've worked for several years, on and off, in the Netherlands (and enjoyed doing so, mostly), and it has always seemed to me that they simply ignore any crimes and corruption they can't be bothered with.

Thing is, when normal citizens interact with government there is no corruption. Any corruption that exists is higher, political, and worried about exposure.
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