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Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

wsj.com

211–220 of 381 posts

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#211
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's completely ignoring all other reasons why infection might go down, the most important one being effective countermeasures, like wearing masks and social distancing. If those measures are so effective, why did they take nearly a year for an effect to be seen?

I agree, cases are falling so fast and so dramatically in Texas that it looks like a data error. I see no way masks and social distancing resulted in the drop off happening now. We're at levels not seen since the mins in Sept/Oct which outruns the holiday wave. I can't make heads or tails of it. https://apps.texastribune.org/features/2020/texas-coronaviru... edit: the past weather has certainly had an effect on testi…

There's more:

* The WHO updated their guidelines for PCR tests in a way that could cause this (because the tests were being misused, the new guidelines clarify how they're supposed to be used in a way the previous ones did not), except the update also happened after the drop started.

* The drop is worldwide, it seems like only a handful of countries aren't experiencing it. In most places it started at various parts of January, but here in Illinois it started in November (minus spikes that correlate to Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years).

* There is no correlation in the US between "lockdown states" and "reopened states". It's just dropping everywhere.

My personal belief: We already hit herd immunity in most of the world a month ago. There's a few possibilities for why this would be (underestimating cross-immunity or how far the virus has spread, for example), but it's really hard to say for sure.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#213
post #21

While I'd love to believe that herd immunity is almost here or the vaccine is effectively stopping the spread already, I think the biggest reason for the drop in new cases as well as the drop in active cases can be summed up in a single word. Christmas. Or more broadly the holiday season. It's absolutely true that new cases are dropping and active cases are dropping as well but if you look at active cases everything…

This doesn't explain why new cases started surging in early November, unless you want to put that on Halloween. Even then, new infections where rising all of October. I'd also argue there weren't clear post-holiday surges beyond people delaying tests.

I don't mean to compare it to herd immunity, but I wonder how much impact there is from people with situations, behaviors and decision making strategies that tend to lead to infection getting immunity.

Essentially, is there enough bias in transmission for some people to make a greater contribution to group immunity than others.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what viruses have we reached meaningful herd immunity without vaccines?

Flu, if you grant that different strains count.

Influenza? The one which kills thousands of people every year despite widespread vaccination?

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out that someone is not an expert at something is not an ad hominem.

Arguing against someone's position by simply stating (truthfully or not) that they are not an expert is textbook ad hominem .

Arguing against their position by saying that they kick puppies is textbook ad hominem. Saying that they are not an expert isn't a strong argument, but it is a valid criticism.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#216
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, cases are falling so fast and so dramatically in Texas that it looks like a data error. I see no way masks and social distancing resulted in the drop off happening now. We're at levels not seen since the mins in Sept/Oct which outruns the holiday wave. I can't make heads or tails of it. https://apps.texastribune.org/features/2020/texas-coronaviru... edit: the past weather has certainly had an effect on testi…

There's more: * The WHO updated their guidelines for PCR tests in a way that could cause this (because the tests were being misused, the new guidelines clarify how they're supposed to be used in a way the previous ones did not), except the update also happened after the drop started. * The drop is worldwide, it seems like only a handful of countries aren't experiencing it. In most places it started at various parts o…

bullet three is pretty fascinating for all kinds of flame-war inducing reasons that I'm just going to leave out.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#217
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada closed some of the internal borders between its provinces; something that has never happened before. Some road blocks, some of its based simply on the honour system. Here in Ontario, I cannot legally visit anywhere east of Quebec right now without quarantining on arrival for 2 weeks. And some remote communities are literally barricaded from entry.

Wow! No wonder Canada beat covid-19. Oh wait, they didn’t. But at least they are in the worst economic depression in decades.

The regions that did quarantine themselves like that (the Atlantic provinces) are in fact doing much better than the rest of the country. Newfoundland is in near-total suppression. Though unlike some others in this thread I do believe being an island is helpful, even if just psychologically.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#218
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty weird actually. The news desk for the WSJ is among the best out there. Their news stories tend to be really dry in a good way - full of facts and figures, with very little in the way of click bait hyperbole. Their subscriber model is all about business people who want the details and not opinion... Which then makes the opinion desk at the WSJ a real oddball. It's consistently right-leaning, sometimes to t…

Isn't that the point of Op-Ed sections, at the end of the day? It's always been a way for newspapers to host what's effectively a glorified collection of Medium posts. Even the New York Times' Opinion page is consistently partisan.

"Op-Ed" literally means "Opposite the editorial page." It's a place in the newspaper specifically reserved for opinion, not news.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op-ed

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#219
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SARS was more lethal and people actually took public health measures seriously.

Additionally, SARS v1 was not contagious until there were visible symptoms - a huge difference from COVID/SARS v2.

I wouldn't put too much confidence in that. SARS wasn't known to be contagious presymptomatically, but neither was COVID-19 for many months. Levels of presymptomatic transmission similar to COVID-19 are entirely consistent with the evidence we have from SARS.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#220
post #199

I was thinking the same thing, but a more conservative estimate using people who have had at least 1 dose of the vaccine or those who have recovered to calculate herd immunity. https://github.com/Arkwin/US-COVID-Herd-Immunity-Tracker/ I update the data from the CDC website every day.

Looks like we're currently hovering around 21.39% and were at 15.26% on 2021-01-31.

6% in ~22 days

At what level are we considered herd immune? When 50.1% of the population is immune/recovered?

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