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Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

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Re: Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

#211
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waiting for the physicist in the room to point out: there is no such thing as simultaneity! :)

Came here to suggest The Order of Time by C Rovelli, which explains this in such a captivating way.

I think this video explains the issue quite well in only two minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wteiuxyqtoM

Re: Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

#212

i wish they would stream the video and audio from the craft live as it descends to the martian surface

The bandwidth to stream video from mars simply isn't available. Once it's landed, perserverance must lock onto sattelites orbiting mars in order to send media back to earth.

Actually, Percy has her own Mars-to-Earth radio. It's that the high bandwidth is UHF to MRO, MRO to Earth usually (as I understand it). My guess is they probably could manage a few FPS at low resolution directly from Percy - but probably wouldn't do that for power reasons. https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/spacecraft/rover/communicatio...

Re: Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the point stands No it doesn't. The person was trying to say SpaceX > NASA. Many people here are trying to shit on the other side as if they have a real point. They're both doing cool and useful things and they're both really really good at what they do.

I'm not trying to say that SpaceX is better than NASA. I am responding to the point that NASA has done things that SpaceX hasn't (e.g. landing on other celestial bodies) by pointing out that SpaceX has done things NASA hasn't (e.g. SpaceX rockets land and can be reused). I don't think it makes sense to talk about which is better unless there is some specific metric that can be measured so a conclusion could be reache…

I'm not saying SpaceX isn't doing good but the price has gone up per (re)launch, not down as projected, so at the moment of it were possible to buy a trip to space for a few tourists it would be cheaper on a shuttle.

Re: Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

#214

Something I don't understand: when they say "X is 1 minute from happening", does that mean it's really 1 minute from happening or does that mean "in 1 minute we'll receive the signal that X has happened"? Maybe my question makes more sense in the case of "X is happening right now", because then I should either understand "we infer that X should have happened right about now" or "we have confirmed via signal that X ha…

Waiting for the physicist in the room to point out: there is no such thing as simultaneity! :)

[deleted]

Re: Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what coordinate system you're using. Simultaneity is ill defined in relativity. There's only future, past and "spacelike-separated" (neither past nor future). When they say, "X is 1 minute from happening," it's actually neither in the past nor the future. It's currently spacelike-separated, but in 1 minute, it will be in our past.

Yes, yes, you have shown you know what relativity is. But the relative velocity of earth and mars — which I can't convince Wolfram Alpha to tell me, but it's got to be on the order of their orbital velocity so let's say 5x10^4 mph — is a tiny tiny fraction of c so their inertial reference frames are essentially identical. So sitting in our reference frame, we can make inferences about what's happening "now" on mars,s…

Now is the part where someone brings up even with the low relative velocity, you haven’t accounted for the simultaneity issues we’d have if the earth collided with a black hole while the rover landing was happening.

Re: Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

#216

You can also watch an EDL visualization in your browser: https://eyes.nasa.gov/apps/mars2020/#/home And read about how it will use Terrain Relative Navigation to find a safe landing spot: https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/a-neil-armstrong-for-mars-land... Perseverance is phenomenally complex, its Sample Caching System alone contains 3,000+ parts and two robotic arms. So exited for all the sciencing this nuclear-powered,…

> Cruise Mass Balance Devices

They put those in to make the probe seem higher-quality. They got the idea from Beats headphones.

Re: Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

#217
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other posters have pointed out that it's the hazard avoidance camera, but they haven't said why the hazard avoidance camera is black and white. When you do computer vision, the first step you do is convert your color image into a black and white image, and run your CV algorithms on the black and white image. This is because when you're looking at objects and shapes and stuff, it's contrast that tells you where the bo…

Thank you for the explanation. That was highly interesting. Does anyone else know if the human eye does perceive color directly? Is this at all technically possible? And if yes, why aren't we doing it with cameras?

What do you mean by "directly"? Color is a human abstraction over the reception intensity of certain wavelengths of light.

Re: Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

#218
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other posters have pointed out that it's the hazard avoidance camera, but they haven't said why the hazard avoidance camera is black and white. When you do computer vision, the first step you do is convert your color image into a black and white image, and run your CV algorithms on the black and white image. This is because when you're looking at objects and shapes and stuff, it's contrast that tells you where the bo…

Thank you for the explanation. That was highly interesting. Does anyone else know if the human eye does perceive color directly? Is this at all technically possible? And if yes, why aren't we doing it with cameras?

Short answer: No. We (the majority anyway, as some are colourblind) only perceive lightness, reddish, greenish, and bluish. The brain uses the info and effectively synthesises the image in our brains.

Long answer: Colour is a very rabbithole topic but Captain Disillusion has a summary of it (https://youtu.be/FTKP0Y9MVus) and Technology Connections has a discussion (https://youtu.be/uYbdx4I7STg).

Re: Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

#219

NASA's ability of succeeding at landing things successfully on the first try on foreign bodies since 1969 is mind-blowing. Meanwhile, SpaceX takes half a dozen tries before managing to do the same on a fully known environment on Earth.

SpaceX has a very different set of risk tolerances and approaches. Nasa is a government funded entity and the tolerance for failure (rightly or wrongly) is very low according to every thing I've read. SpaceX being private has a much larger cushion for failure. Elon will keep funding it far longer than congress would Nasa is my guess. If SpaceX loses some rockets that's the cost of business, of course once those missi…

You have it exactly backwards. Risk tolerance is higher for the government. Fox example, SpaceX would never just send a rocket to mars just to do science which would bring it zero profits. It won't take risk funding something where the science may or may not bear any fruit.

Also, SpaceX IS mostly funded by NASA anyway as a government contractor. SpaceX exists because the government wanted to create a private space market. Strangely thank George Bush for it. https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/05/how-profitable-is-...

As you can see, SpaceX was so cash strapped in 2017 it obviously didn't go to mars in 2018 as they wanted. Also notice Elon didn't fund that trip (otherwise it would have happened). There is no way he would risk HIS own money on that.

Re: Perseverance Rover lands on Mars [video]

#220

NASA's ability of succeeding at landing things successfully on the first try on foreign bodies since 1969 is mind-blowing. Meanwhile, SpaceX takes half a dozen tries before managing to do the same on a fully known environment on Earth.

That snipe was really unnecessary. Not to mention weird, considering how successful SpaceX has been at dominating the commercial launch sector.

I'm not commenting on the rest of your post but the "dominating the commercial sector" just so you don't think I'm badmouthing SpaceX. Just wanted to add that if you sell X pounds of cargo to the commercial sector but sell the same capacity to the military for X times 3 then your are not dominating but are subsidized by the state and in a position to undercut the commercial competition. It's not just for PR that SpaceX competitors, both foreign and nationally, are saying SpaceX is propped up by the state.
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