I believe workaholists do not neccesarily love their job, but hate something else so much that they would rather find some place to take a bit of rest. I think I'm developing into one...
I'm a recovering workaholic. I have never loved a job that I've had but I love the feeling of accomplishing things or being "done". Often that "done" feeling only came after I was at the office until 8pm.
Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation
211–220 of 251 posts
Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation
#212>"Workaholics are people who usually work seven and more hours more than others per week." >"Workaholism is also known as a behavioural disorder, which means the excessive involvement of the individual in work when an employer doesn’t require or expect it." >"The results show that high job demands at work are strongly associated with work addiction risk but the job control level does not play the same role." In a fir…
To think that you can somehow not be emotionally invested in the thing you spend 20% of your time on is a bit naive. Maybe you're a level 9000 stoic, but for the rest of us, I think it's fine and normal to be emotionally invested in our work, it allows for genuine motivation, team spirit and yes disappointments, but what the hell are you living for? You rather be a robot for 8 hours every day? I'd rather be sad every…
I tried this many times early in my career and it was a mistake. I didn’t find there to ever be any payoff. And when things went badly I didn’t have a shield to keep it from overflowing the rest of my life. I can still enjoy my workmates even if in my heart I know work is bs we all have to do to survive. I still find enjoyment in the craft of programming too.
> but what the hell are you living for?
Good question, B2B SaaS or spending the days wandering in the woods with my kids?
Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation
#213After our second daughter was born with a disability and we didn’t know if she’d make it to her first birthday I threw myself into my new job utterly. I was working 7-7 almost every day, took every opportunity to travel, and in general was absent from the situation as much as my “very important job” would allow. For me I felt completely powerless at the hospital. At work I got to solve “important” problems that were…
Cool. So basically you left your wife with an incredibly intense emotional burden alone to struggle with your daughter by herself. I hear this story all too often. This is not an anecdote about work life balance, this is an anecdote about how men take it for granted that women will inherit and take care of all the chaos in life and men can take a relative vacation at the office. It's not ok.
Don't shame someone's escapism in the face of something life altering. You don't know his suffering, but try and come across more empathetic.
Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
FWIW I found couple therapy very helpful. Especially around the feeling of lack of control in the relationship and not being able to fulfill my needs or being able to ask for them. It really helps to have someone independent who has both parties' interests in mind and who can a) see what is healthy in the relationship and what isn't, b) help with talking about invidivual needs, c) bridge the gap between the two peopl…
How do you find a therapist?
Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So really... is being dead a problem for the dead? Or is it more the concern of those still alive? I wouldn't weigh them. It could go either way. The problem for the dead is the loss of opportunity. The waste. If I have some amount of cash in my wallet, what I'm able to do with it will depend on the market that's available to me. Maybe I won't be able to afford the same things others do in other places, but I shoul…
>The problem for the dead is the loss of opportunity. The waste. If I have some amount of cash in my wallet, what I'm able to do with it will depend on the market that's available to me. Maybe I won't be able to afford the same things others do in other places, but I should be able to take some advantage of it. Dying is dropping that cash down the gutter. It's utterly wasteful, to put it politely. I disagree. Go outs…
I'm not sure how your point counts as a disagreement. You're telling me about how unessential you are, and I don't see how that matters. Nearly everybody is unessential. Heck, being "essential" depends on other people's opinion, and I don't see how their opinion matters either. There's nobody in the world that's really essential.
Before the needs of the world comes the needs of oneself. Though we can enjoy being important to others, nobody needs that to enjoy life. It's just one way to do it.
There's nothing wrong with a mundane life either. Many people even covet for a simple, ordinary life. I did. I was dealt a bad hand (perhaps avoidable/fixable with more effort by me, though that's in hindsight), that I thought I was going to have to live with for the rest of my life. I learned to accept it, commit to it, and enjoy what I still had available to enjoy. Things got better to my surprise and dismay (yes, it was very conflicting), but I would have been fine even if it didn't.
Even members of the lowest social/economic classes laugh heartedly at times and have their own ways to enjoy their time.
> Imagine you saw someone doing something that you loved... Could you honestly say that seeing that would make you happy?
I was trying to write in broad terms. Their wish might not be because the act would make them happy. Rather, one can wish for a task they want done. Even if the person doing it doesn't enjoy it, if it gets the task any closer to completion, then that could make them happy.
As an example, if someone dying is worrying about the care of a dependent loved one, taking steps to care for that dependent person would make them happy no matter how much you might hate it. There's no completion to it either. Any amount of care would be welcomed, I think.
> FWIW I did look into being a living organ donor.
If your health isn't so bad that you're close to dying, then that's also very wasteful in my opinion. You can achieve more with a healthy body. Leave the donation until after you die. There'll always be someone in need of an organ. Even if you provide one now, that'll just leave someone in the future without an organ you could have provided then.
You seem fixated on the happiness of others. Can't you be a little more selfish? You should be able to enjoy life on your own. Actually, you should be able to enjoy it even if you were the only living being on this planet. Even in those circumstances, I think I'd lack time to fully enjoy life. I'd probably spend my time either studying something to make sense of the world or developing skills. That'd be my enjoyment even if there's no one to acknowledge me. I hear others enjoy the feeling of aching muscles after a day's work. I imagine they'd enjoy building stuff, maybe a garden. With the abundance of things we have, it's a matter of choosing the best way to spend our time rather than having trouble finding anything at all. Can't you find a hobby? There's an infinitude of things to enjoy.
Re: finding another rock. You don't need to be irreplaceable to be loved. You can be the support of someone that would appreciate it and find joy that way, too.
Though if work works, then I think that's good too. I had written these other comments on that:
Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation
#216After our second daughter was born with a disability and we didn’t know if she’d make it to her first birthday I threw myself into my new job utterly. I was working 7-7 almost every day, took every opportunity to travel, and in general was absent from the situation as much as my “very important job” would allow. For me I felt completely powerless at the hospital. At work I got to solve “important” problems that were…
Cool. So basically you left your wife with an incredibly intense emotional burden alone to struggle with your daughter by herself. I hear this story all too often. This is not an anecdote about work life balance, this is an anecdote about how men take it for granted that women will inherit and take care of all the chaos in life and men can take a relative vacation at the office. It's not ok.
Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like this again.
Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Was a software developer but realised it’s much easier to be competitive, if you’re a good but not great dev, to get higher paying SDET roles.
Don’t they get paid much less? Let’s say you’re a 7/10 dev, wouldn’t you get paid more as a dev?
Edit: When I made the shift initially from dev to SDET, I had a 50% pay rise. In London I regularly get approached for £85k/$100k roles as an SDET. True devs might earn more than that at the same companies but it’s already much higher than most devs earn in the UK, and I’m not experienced enough to compete for the dev counterpart roles.
Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation
#218Are we expected to believe that there are workaholics in France? Now 'strikaholics' I can believe.
Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now that you are not at the top, I can say it: I have the theory that boys get into programming as a form of escapism – because the external world is frustrating to them. It is certainly my case, external world has all sorts of illogic demands, things that exist but should not be explicited, social rules, or various insults and condescension, some of them because we’re boys (my sister used to tell me boys have 13% fe…
I'd add that there is some kind of toxic behaviour from men in my CS class. Think the typical 4channer type people. Obviously not all but when I had a chat with a couple of women from my class, they mentioned it was common to get hit on all the time during group projects when they were there to study and get talked down on as if they don't know what's going on. I see similar behaviours to how men sometimes "gatekeep"…
How do you make the difference between being talked down because of gender, or because you didn’t practice the skills at the game enough, or bad relations or similar? Is it really the boy’s role to make the experience beautiful for girls? in which case, boys would have the gendered role of explaining the games to girls.
> gatekeeping games
You see, that is my point. Pretty much all activities of real life are gatekept. Programming is the only one that isn’t.
As a boy, 7 years old, my father took both my bigger sister and myself to explain the MS-DOS commands he knew. But does reading the 500-pages book on GW-BASIC by myself to understand how it works, even though I was French and 7yo and I had zero knowledge of English, sound like good gatekeeping to you? But my sister was then invited to various activities in school, including the school programming club if she wanted, but she chose the football club (and this was in the 1990ies). I wasn’t.
So I stuck with programming. No gatekeeping, no social inclusion, just RTFM until you understand the commands.
Re: Workaholism leads to health problems, work addiction risk depends on occupation
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
Glad to hear your daughter is doing well! Your story really captures a lot about the experience of attempting to find some sense of control in a situation where you feel powerless. What do you think it would have taken to develop the emotional stability to approach this differently (i.e. being able to show up at the hospital) or do you believe that experience is the only way to learn some of these lessons?
I don’t really know. I have a few ideas though based on my experience. Our friends and extended family disappeared as soon as our daughter was born. I don’t know if it’s American culture or what, but people get extremely uncomfortable around people who are mourning or going through trials in their lives. People sort of blank out then don’t hang out with you anymore, or even invite you to things. After all, you’re goi…