Facebook senior software engineer interview • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#211

Post by blisterpeanuts » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

avl999 wrote: post #201

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After 20 years in software, I had a phone interview with an Amazon guy who sounded half my age (at most). Asked me to write some kind of function to do something, sort some stuff or some such. I described verbally how I would do it, almost line by line, in pseudo-code. He said "I need you to write it out in [some language]". I said "But why? I just told you how I'd do it." But he needed me to literally write the code…

While I have sympathy for the idea that some of these interviews can be ridiculous, however it doesn't seem like the interviewer was in the wrong here. As an interviewee you should have known what interview process is like, I worked at Amazon and I know the recruiters brief the candidates on what to expect in the interview, so you should have known going in that you'd be expected to write code, you could have said no…

They didn't brief me to expect that. Or, to be fair, maybe they did and I missed it. I didn't mention above that he refused to answer a couple of basic questions (what type of work is it? what language? where will the job be? can I be remote?) until he got through the script. It was like talking to a machine. And he was rude. I got a negative impression. I know, sometimes recruits are expected to put up with some rudeness or brusqueness to show how flexible they are, can put up with different personalities etc. But this guy just came across as kind of immature and arrogant. Sorry, but I'm quite glad I terminated the interview and he also seemed unwilling to push at all, just said "okay!" in a sing-song voice that implied "yeah whatever, go die". At least be polite and try to convey some professionalism or you're going to turn off people who prefer to work around professionals.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#212

Post by base698 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

gamerDude wrote: post #68

logicchains wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in most cases doctors have many, many thousands of hours under their belt in training before still needing to study a ton to pass their boards The difference is that what the doctors put so much time into learning can actually be quite useful for their job. The vast majority of competitive coding stuff isn't. Interview procedures based around it completely fail to assess some of the most important abilities in softw…

My ex girlfriend is a pediatric cardiologist who recently passed her boards. When I talked to her about it, she was very much on the side that she wished she didn't have to study for it because it didn't have much to do with her job at all. She just wished she could spend her time getting better at the skills she actually used rather than a wide range of academic material that didn't matter to her day to day. Her fri…

> "What the student thought was it temporary concession to the system-"I'll play along just enough so that I can get what I want from the system"-turns out to be the beginning of it forced, permanent adjustment to the system."

This is common to all professional disciplines.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008GRDKPG

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#213

Post by driverdan » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #194

onion2k wrote: post #2

There are two interesting things in this post. The first is that a senior developer at Facebook believes every single senior developer looking for a role at Facebook can revise the same things. Clearly the author believes that Facebook are looking for programmers who fit a very specific mould, to the point that they're willing to go out in public and state exactly that. I'd argue that points to a massive monoculture…

FB pays astronomically well. You don’t have to work there, but if you do, this is what you have to do. Saying that it creates a “monoculture” is like saying that soccer teams only hiring people who can run this fast, jump this high, and kick the ball this hard get to be on the team. Sure, they might miss the occasional great talent who is unathletic but has some great gift for the game, but it’s not a bad set of hiri…

This is a poor analogy. It's like making a soccer / football player answer a test on the history of the sport, how the ball is made, the geometry involved in kicking the ball, the mesh size of the goal net, etc.

There may be some relevance but in the end if they're a good player none of that matters. You'd be testing the wrong things to know if they're a good player.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#214

Post by avl999 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

Even the ethical questions about working at facebook aside, as an engineering environment fb doesn't seem like that great of a place. Kent Beck was fired from fb, he worked there for a few years and shared his experience of the culture there https://softwareengineeringdaily.com/2020/12/10/facebook-eng... It doesn't sound like a place I'd want to work at.

Edit: Updated the link to the right podcast.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#215

Post by Aunche » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #65

conorh wrote: post #20

Every time I read these posts I find them very depressing. Crunch through an enormous bunch of algorithm problems in order to perform well on some unrealistic whiteboard programming (I think the system engineering problems are actually more useful though) - as usual we've focused on the easy to measure metric rather than anything actually useful. Maybe these things are meant to be a proxy for how good you are at othe…

After 20 years in software, I had a phone interview with an Amazon guy who sounded half my age (at most). Asked me to write some kind of function to do something, sort some stuff or some such. I described verbally how I would do it, almost line by line, in pseudo-code. He said "I need you to write it out in [some language]". I said "But why? I just told you how I'd do it." But he needed me to literally write the code…

Companies like Amazon have standardized procedures for interviews. At the company I work for, the person interviewing isn't going to be the same person who hires you, so they need more data that just the interviewer's notes. Also, deviating from the standard procedure opens up the effect of unconscious bias.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#216

Post by johnnujler » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

Sleep well, Eliminate stress from life, get a decent job that allows you to explore things you want to do on side, spend time with family and lead a happy life. Note that this is a very ambitious route to follow, most people never understand this or get to live like this. But if you are super ambitious and have a domain that you are interested in, go create a product, become an entrepreneur. There is nothing as rewarding. Please don't stress and burn yourself out for a job.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#217

Post by driverdan » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

arihant wrote: post #46

onion2k wrote: post #2

There are two interesting things in this post. The first is that a senior developer at Facebook believes every single senior developer looking for a role at Facebook can revise the same things. Clearly the author believes that Facebook are looking for programmers who fit a very specific mould, to the point that they're willing to go out in public and state exactly that. I'd argue that points to a massive monoculture…

The author mentions CLRS. It’s an introductory level algorithms book and is used in Junior/Senior years of undergrad. Expecting a senior engineer to be well versed in undergrad level algorithms is not a monoculture problem.

Only if the role you're hiring for requires directly applying those algos. A high level understanding is good but implementation knowledge isn't.

I've been in this industry for almost 15 years. I've never once had to write a low level algo implementation. On the few occasions I had to dig that deep into code I looked up what I'd forgotten. If someone asked me to whiteboard bubble sort I'd choke.

There's no need to know it all by heart and recall it on demand unless the job you're doing requires it.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#218

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #8

onion2k wrote: post #2

There are two interesting things in this post. The first is that a senior developer at Facebook believes every single senior developer looking for a role at Facebook can revise the same things. Clearly the author believes that Facebook are looking for programmers who fit a very specific mould, to the point that they're willing to go out in public and state exactly that. I'd argue that points to a massive monoculture…

I couldn't disagree more with your post. The author is basically just putting out a detailed study plan for passing an exam. If a doctor posted a plan for passing the medical boards would your first thought be "Wow, look at that massive medical monoculture problem!" That seems like a ridiculous stretch in my opinion. To your second point, I hear this all the time in threads about tech interviewing: "Tech interviews a…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#219

Post by francisofascii » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #204

LordHumungous wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same. It's also much more meritocratic. People from no-name schools and no-name companies study leetcode and get into FAANG all the time. Do people really think it would be better to base it on resume and YOE?

It's not an "either/or" choice... These companies treat it as though if you can't recite a leetcode answer line for line then you're no good. A software developer skillset is a lot more varied than reciting 5 leetcode answers for algorithms you won't ever use in production code 99% of the time. And that 1% of the time you do? You're just going to Google the algorithm again anyway. It's an almost pointless interview e…

Partially agree. But developers have to often create custom algorithms that are very specific to their business requirements, and these algorithms cannot be simply googled. I agree they would never write a "sort" algorithm, I suppose interviewers use these generic algorithms, rather than take the additional time needed to explain a real world, custom set of requirements.

Re: Facebook senior software engineer interview

#220

Post by TeaDrunk » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #134

janoc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not the expectation but that something like that can even come up during an interview for a senior position! It is like testing a surgeon's suturing skill during a job interview. Of course, it is an essential skill for them to have, but that's something for a school exam and not job interview for someone with verifiable credentials. Or do you think that surgeon didn't suture in their previous job and j…

>that's something for a school exam and not job interview for someone with verifiable credentials The problem is the "verifiable credentials" vary widely in rigor. There is no analogous standardizing and credentialing body like their is in medical fields. So the "basics" need to be tested repeatedly at every new interview. The solution is to have an analogous standardizing body, but people in this field seem to be re…

A standardizing body has its own downsides. The medical credential stigma is real- nurse vs traditional school vs osteopathic school, many of which have been closed to specific races or gender identities historically.

EDIT: Of course, that and the fact technology is extremely rapid. Does this mean software people need to re-credential regularly?