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The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

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Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#211

Post by aksss »

an_opabinia wrote: post #202
reitzensteinm wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It totally is systemic racism. But I wish there was another word for it, or that racism were not used interchangeably with systemic racism. There's a hell of a difference between "you're racist" and "you're spreading misinformation that only exists because your grandparents were racist". The latter will get a reaction from the vast majority of people like "oh shit, I had no idea, that's awful". The former will cause…

MSG aversion is relatively new. People’s attitudes about it change over the scale of decades. This is pretty consistent with most other food additives, like aspartame, certain preservatives and certain food colorings. While I agree there exists racism against Asian Americans in many places, it would behoove people who feel passionate about the elimination of prejudice around the world to fight for things not because…

Yes, there’s a strong, recurring aversion to food additives that doesn’t require racism as an explanation. I think the MSG/Chinese connection was because the restaurants would add it to their dishes, which was at the time kind a unique thing - even though many processed foods contain MSG, having it added to your prepared food would be as strange as them adding Yellow #5 to your dish, and the reaction no different. There’s a quality of integrity to prepared dishes that most all but the modernist restaurants trade upon. Chemical additives, in the days Red Dye #2 scares and the rest hardly need a racist explanation to understand the aversion.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#212

Post by KMag »

sellyme wrote: post #186
wwweston wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone who swears that MSG is bad for health do so because they personally hold anti-chinese racist views? Probably not. Is it possible that: * the MSG mythology in some Western nation was proposed by those with some degree of bias against foreign things or chinese cuisine or people specifically * it caught on and was repeated by people who were enthusiastic about it because of some degree of that bias * MSG was…

> Maybe there's other equally credible explanations While I have very little doubt that xenophobia was a large factor in the hysteria over MSG in the United States, there's definitely no need for a "Maybe" here. Just look at the "pink goop" claims about McNuggets that range from two decades out of date to completely falsified - people are willing to believe all kinds of nonsense that fits their preconceived notions.

See also the number of people who believe they have a gluten sensitivity or peanut allergy, or who are worried about the pH of their food, etc., etc. A large segment of the US population has been conditioned to be paranoid about food. A rise in self-diagnosis combined with the placebo effect when testing a self-diagnosis certainly hasn't helped matters.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#214

Post by asiachick »

newen wrote: post #115
xyst wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is partly why chic-fil-a is so popular in the United States. https://www.chick-fil-a.com/menu-items/chick-fil-a-deluxe-sa... (expand the "Ingredients" sub-item and search for "monosodium glutamate") I say partly because we the consumers have been tricked into thinking fried chicken is somehow healthy because it has all of the buzz words associated with it ("organic", "free range")

Nobody thinks fried chicken is healthy, lol.

plenty of people think fried chicken is healthy

https://www.google.com/search?q=%E3%83%98%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B7%...

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#215

Post by aksss »

dsohn0 wrote: post #198
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've hit on the true issue. The majority of people have only leared on a superficial level of of the intertwined racism of America's past - often times mostly the light touches they learned in elementary school. And what's taught in elementary school is intentionally simplified to something deemed appropriate for children. Some summary of slavery is bad, MLK, Rosa Parks, sit-ins... Most people don't actuall…

Black people want their victimhood to last 1000 years. Let's not pretend American racism is somehow exceptional. Africans have been committing ethnic cleansing as a continental pastime for centuries and no one cries a river about that.

I often think the people who talk loudly and overly-much about the US’s endemic racism have never travelled abroad much to witness what the rest of the world is really like (looking at you, Japan). It’s a product of an education curriculum that is hyper-focused on the misdeeds of the US. While the misdeeds need attention the view completely lacks an honest accounting of how amazing the state of this 325m culturally heterogenous society is compared to.. throw a dart at the world map.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#216

Post by asiachick »

dotancohen wrote: post #99
ceejayoz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may've seen my comment before I edited in the second excerpt. We've pretty clear evidence of harm from certain doses of cyanide. We don't have it for MSG, despite a whole lot of trying.

Actually we do have a lower bound for the MSG dose that will negatively affect 50% of the population. But that dose is about six times higher than the normally-served dose. The fine article mentions that. Some people have a lower tolerance than "most people", for any given chemical, MSG included.

6 times many things will probably have people react to things they have zero reaction at normal amounts. 6 times the alcohol, 6 times the salt, 6 times the capsicum yet they all consume it just fine at 1x, same as MSG.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#217

Post by optimiz3 »

eli wrote: post #187
wwweston wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone who swears that MSG is bad for health do so because they personally hold anti-chinese racist views? Probably not. Is it possible that: * the MSG mythology in some Western nation was proposed by those with some degree of bias against foreign things or chinese cuisine or people specifically * it caught on and was repeated by people who were enthusiastic about it because of some degree of that bias * MSG was…

You don’t have to knowingly possess a racist motive to be racist.

Ah yes the modern version of original sin.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#218

Post by chaganated »

louisvgchi wrote: post #10

Dave Chang has a small scene in one of his Ugly Delicious (great show, by the way) episodes where he gets a group of non-Asian Americans, who claim to be MSG-allergic, to come and share their stories of MSG-related symptoms after eating at Chinese restaurants. He then hands out Doritos and American products that the participants claim they love and can eat all day. Hard to see where this is going... he says, all thes…

I'd like to know what the dosages were before telling people that it's "all in their heads," then labeling them as racists.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#219

Post by KMag »

pmoriarty wrote: post #63
victor106 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Invoking racism and gender discrimination when it’s not the reason, causes more racism and it gives more than ample opportunity to actual racists within us to exploit it for their own nefarious needs.

"Invoking racism and gender discrimination when it’s not the reason, causes more racism" So, wait, you're saying if someone who's not a racist gets called a racist that's going to be enough to turn him in to a racist? If that's all it took they were probably racist to begin with.

I think they're referring to a more long-term and less direct causality when they say crying wolf causes more racism. In my reading of the GP, "leads to" would be a better word choice.

> enough to turn him in to a racist

If I were to call you a sexist for your choice of pronouns (and throw in "self hate is the worst kind" if your pronouns happen to be he/him), and you were to see several other likely unwarranted accusations being thrown around against you and others, you'd be less likely to take notice when real sexism is called out. Fewer people taking notice of real actionable cases of sexism would likely result in more sexism over time.

Re: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok (2019)

#220

Post by aksss »

lavishlatern wrote: post #145
yongjik wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the reason Koreans think it's bad for health? Pretty much the same reason why Americans think it's bad for health. It has a scary-sounding name (it's also called "MSG" in Korea), it sounds like a "chemical", and you can find it in ingredient lists of all popular junk foods - most notably instant ramen, which is basically an MSG+salt solution masquerading as noodles. Give something in food an exotic name, an…

> Besides, if "racism" is the explanation behind it, how are you going to explain the immense popularity of Chinese food everywhere in America? Probably in the same way that one could explain how the existence of Taco Bell does not preclude racism towards Mexicans.

“Chinese food” is not analogous to Taco Bell. Panda Express might be your Taco Bell equivalent.. maybe.
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