“I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews” • Hacker News Board

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#211

Post by solipsism » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 6:14 AM UTC

landtuna wrote: post #145

solipsism wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some other problem. None of us can say what it is unless you share your resume, what companies you've applied to, etc. But if you get "no hits" with 20 years of experience in Python and C++, the problem is 100% not "missing machine learning and cloud experience".

Is that an offer? :) https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimhunziker/ One hit was for making machine guns target humans better. (I rejected the in-person interview.) Another dropped me because they wanted cloud experience. A YC company changed the job from remote to SF only before we talked.

Where's the 20 YoE? Your linkedin says 10. And it only shows 6.

What did you do between 1998 (when you earned your degree) and 2014 when you started doing the consulting? That's a super long time to leave undocumented. That makes potential employers nervous.

What subject was your degree in? It's strange that it doesn't say.

I think you should take a look at the resume of other people with 20 years of experience in the software engineering industry and compare and contrast. When I look at this, I think... "What did this guy do for all this time? Did he advance in any meaningful way?" In 20 years, I want to see * Advancement * Variety * Leadership

I don't know your story, and I have no real reason to think you're not an accomplished engineer. But your CV isn't doing a good job of showing it. Good luck to you.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#212

Post by genedan » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 6:18 AM UTC

runT1ME wrote: post #26

I'm very sympathetic to the idea that a more objective test like interview format eliminates bias from the interviewer, as well as the idea it allows introverts or those not as well versed in storytelling to be successful opposed to traditional 'sell yourself' interviews. However, it's a huge waste of time when so many of the questions are the same. I get it, every company wants to know if I can turn a list into a ba…

>I really wish there was some certifying body that would put me through the whiteboard guantlet once, and then I could just share my score to companies I apply to.

In my field (actuarial), we have a ridiculously long credentialing process that involves 10 exams, which can take 8 or so years to complete. And many have the opinion that the tests are unfair and wish they could just have technical interviews instead.

Then there are some companies that don't trust the credentialing process and give you a technical interview anyway, even after you had proved yourself by finishing the exams.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#213

Post by trimbo » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 6:19 AM UTC

decafninja wrote: post #12

Unless you've made it to your "endgame" company that you're happy to stay at for a while, I feel investing anything more than the bare minimum to get your assigned work done is worth less than just grinding leetcode and otherwise studying for interviews. Doing an actual good job, above and beyond, is not going to be worth much when you're looking for your next job. Thus we're now seeing the rise of Professional Inter…

This is a truly remarkable take I've never heard before. I honestly wonder if it's true.

If it's actually true--and if poor quality of work and reputation mean nothing, just leetcode--it seems like that is just a side effect of extremely rapid expansion and/or churn.

Because no employer would willingly hire people like that. That'd be absurd. So the only reason that would be possible if the hiring manager never got wind of someone's work ethic or quality. And it seems like that's only possible with enough disjointedness in the people network, combined with hiring practices that don't care about it.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#214

Post by an_opabinia » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 6:20 AM UTC

gumby wrote: post #205

decafninja wrote: post #12

Unless you've made it to your "endgame" company that you're happy to stay at for a while, I feel investing anything more than the bare minimum to get your assigned work done is worth less than just grinding leetcode and otherwise studying for interviews. Doing an actual good job, above and beyond, is not going to be worth much when you're looking for your next job. Thus we're now seeing the rise of Professional Inter…

> I feel investing anything more than the bare minimum to get your assigned work done is worth less than just grinding leetcode and otherwise studying for interviews. Doing an actual good job, above and beyond, is not going to be worth much when you're looking for your next job. I feel precisely the opposite: if you work somewhere with people you like working with (and who like working with you) then you will start t…

No dude, I’ve been burned by exactly what that poster described. Being well networked just gets your application opened. The leetcode is what gets you hired.

The people who would hire me without leetcode were either trying to take advantage of me or have never been my coworkers.

As another commenter said: Leetcode, leetcode, leetcode.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#215

Post by Rebelgecko » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 6:23 AM UTC

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #208

svrb wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TL;DR: you're testing for likability and other emotional response.

You’re saying that as if social skills were worthless, and likability unimportant for working together. I wonder where that sentiment comes from.

"Culture fit" is one of those things that seems to be used as a proxy for traits that are illegal to take into consideration during the hiring process.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#216

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 6:26 AM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #100

echelon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our industry feels like it's in the decline of the Roman Empire right now. Our craft is becoming arcane: Microsoft is building VSCode for the cloud. Few people own desktop computers anymore. Apple is locking down MacOS to signed binaries. Soon we'll all have thin clients and will write software in the cloud for the cloud. Few will be able to learn how to engineer at home anymore - you'll have to go to a university or…

Companies are trying to hire more outside of California in order to lower wages across the board This could turn out to be a very good thing for the country. It's a social & economic problem if all the money & opportunity are squeezed into just one metro.

> This could turn out to be a very good thing for the country.

Once you cross the hump to not seeking physical proximity when seeking to minimize labor costs, there's very little reason to go to the rest of the US once you leave the SFBA.

The country it's good for isn't the US.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#217

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 6:29 AM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #127

sn41 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will not say I don't know why you are downvoted, since such remarks get downvoted here. But can't we look at an alternative model where some such standardized test is used to test basic competence, and then trainees get 2 week training on the job? Afterwards, we can select a subset based on specific tests designed for the job, rather than the usual interview questions. How many of us have actually used dynamic prog…

Eh, again, it’s a scale problem. When there’s too many people, the only respectable way to say ‘it’s crowded here already’ is to make the entrance criteria tough. Take a look at skilled migration in western countries. We want to maintain a sane(sustainable) population in our society. The problem is no other profession fucking pays or provides a decent desk job career. The only positive of this level of gate keeping i…

> If the gate keeping disappeared, the metric fuck ton of downward pressure on developer salaries would be catastrophic.

On the other hand, maybe it would force engineers to join the rest of the disgruntled masses and organize for a more equitable society.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#218

Post by ducttapecrown » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 6:33 AM UTC

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #208

svrb wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TL;DR: you're testing for likability and other emotional response.

You’re saying that as if social skills were worthless, and likability unimportant for working together. I wonder where that sentiment comes from.

The grandposter actually doesn't say "social skills" are worthless. You're kinda putting words into their mouth. They only claim that that type of interview is biased for one factor.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#219

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 6:33 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #162

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our industry feels like it's in the decline of the Roman Empire right now. .... And here I am, writing a desktop native app that targets a small niche of users, with no marketing, no advertising, and we've had our strongest year yet, and overall usage just grows slowly year over year. Maybe it's how you think things ought to be that is misaligned with reality, rather than "the decline of the Roman Empire".

Rome took quite some time to decline, and to fall. And there were always pockets of stability. Maybe your app is Byzantium.

[deleted]

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#220

Post by abiogenesis » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 6:33 AM UTC

landtuna wrote: post #159

29athrowaway wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend joining a Python meetup. It can be a simple way to grow your network and have free pizza and beer. Now, with respect to cloud... it's not that hard to learn. If you have system administration skills it should not be a real challenge for you. Now, people in the industry did not wake up one day and conspire to radically change how things work. It has been a gradual change over many years... that's why it's…

Oh, I'm informed. But that doesn't make experience. And neither does a side project, really. And what side project needs cloud scale? The meet-up is a good idea.

Meet-ups may work. I met my current employer at a local Python meetup and got offered a position right away (I am 40+ too, by the way). I had recently moved to the area and had no contacts.