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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#211

Post by cbthrow91 »

whymauri wrote: post #145
cbthrow91 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our execs have short text guides on how to work best with them and everyone on my team has been encouraged to share similar. The default assumption is everyone should be working together to accommodate on how we can all work best together. I've been in environments where certain communications styles are labeled more correct or ideal. So I've really loved this guidebook + accommodation approach. I went into this arti…

>CB is a really great company for any curious nerd to join. Not if they're black or brown, apparently. I have no idea how you could say this is a 'great' company after reading this article. Like my mind is actually blown.

I work on a diverse team at CB that has engagement scores through the roof. And you don't need to know the survey data to know that; just join us for lunch. We're curious, we care about each other, and we care about the mission.

The NYTimes is like the Daily Prophet for muggles. Don't over-index on a hit piece.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#212

Post by whakim »

ardit33 wrote: post #199
whakim wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there were important details that were omitted, Coinbase had the opportunity to surface them in their widely-publicized pre-emptive rebuttal. Also, the "if you're not with us, you're with them" mantra rests on the assumption that supporting the status quo means furthering terrorism/racism/whatever. In 2003 that was provably false given that there was no link between Iraq and Al Qaeda and no evidence of Saddam's su…

They did: 1. They are not mentioning that one reason is that a team had transfered regions/states, and that might be the main cause of attrition on that team, and not the actual treatment. 2. In a previous article, NYT failed to mention at all that Coinbase had provided severance of 6 months (which is very generous). NYT made it seems as these employees were forced out the company and lelft out in the streets a) Omit…

> They are not mentioning that one reason is that a team had transfered regions/states, and that might be the main cause of attrition on that team, and not the actual treatment.

They did mention this: "When Coinbase announced it would be opening an office in Portland, Ore., several Black employees in the compliance department who worked remotely were told to move there or reapply for new jobs, four former employees said." They then state the sole white employee on the team did not have to relocate. That isn't necessarily hard evidence of anything on its own, but fits the general pattern described in the rest of the story.

> In a previous article, NYT failed to mention at all that Coinbase had provided severance of 6 months (which is very generous). NYT made it seems as these employees were forced out the company and lelft out in the streets

The departures described in this story all occurred prior to Coinbase's no-politics severance offer.

> Omitting key details, is a very malicious type of journalism, and NY Times has been doing that for a while.

I'm not sure what key details are omitted here. The rest of your argument, to me, is very conspiratorial. The NYT certainly has a point of view, and no one's denying that. But considering that NYT has had incredibly strong financial results over the past 5 years, I find it difficult to believe that anti-tech stories are all part of a secret smear campaign to undermine a supposed business competitor.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#213

Post by treis »

ygjb wrote: post #195
treis wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are correct that the people in the article that either filed complaints, or spoke with the New York Times risked repercussions, but not all of the folks the Times spoke with are identified. People were willing to talk, but not necessarily on the record, or to be identified. That is because they are fearful of reprisal, based on past experiences and observations. You're arguing against a straw man here. I did not…

> You're arguing against a straw man here. [...] There's nothing even like that. And you are arguing in bad faith; there are several parts of the article that detail exactly what you are looing for. In the second paragraph, the article indicates that 11 of the folks who left notified HR or their managers. In the third paragraph one of the named victims states she made several reports. In the sixth paragraph 5 on the…

>And you are arguing in bad faith; there are several parts of the article that detail exactly what you are looing for.

Everything you list is an accusation. What I am looking for is:

(1) Person X said this racist thing happened.

(2) The event in (1) is (a) true, and (b) backed up by a corroborating witness, this email, some document, etc

>You also have to look at the facts; Susan is an excellent writer, and based on her book, she already had some measure of experience speaking truth to power.

If the NY Times doesn't have reporters that can do that then they should fire the ones they have and find some that can.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#214

Post by throwmylifawy »

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing.

Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion might just not be good enough for the job and then just blame discrimination rather than facing the truth (pure gaslighting). Others just go on to attack the New York Times (attacking the messenger). I am waiting for the data science guru to synthesize statistics about how everything is just fine!

I am not going to pretend to be the arbiter of truth here, but can we just take a moment to imagine the possibility that racism (specifically against black Americans) is a problem in America in 2020? Is it such a stretch of the imagination? I mean if we can unquestioningly believe that cryptocurrency is viable currency, we can certainly give the benefit of the doubt to the black workers who have abandoned the company.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#215

Post by caffeine »

vmception wrote: post #63

I was willing to support the general message Brian Armstrong put out, but with the added context and chronology I cannot. I would say that this kind of mission statement can only work if done at the beginning, as reacting in response to the work environment described by their employees was doomed for failure. I know many people like Brian Armstrong, and the investors. They are all cut from a similar cloth and they ho…

Why is it racist or sexist to not to be interested in "inclusion" (which actually means "quotas", right?)

I would think that progressive activism is the minority rather than the default view.

Isn't it the racially discriminatory stance to make decisions based on race?

I think most rational people would rather make decisions purely on competence and facts, not identity.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#216

Post by newnamenewface »

KirinDave wrote: post #201
bra-ket wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can do nothing, once someone calls you 'racist' you're racist for good. I don't know the details of the story, but the thing is with baseless accusations of racism is that it's a perfect slander, one can never prove innocence once proclaimed guilty.

If a San Francisco denizen says to you, "I stepped in human poop" you don't say, "Pics or it didn't happen." That's becuse it's a common occurrence. It's plausible it happened. The same is true of racism in Silicon Valley and the adjoint areas. Being less racist is actually the unusual condition that requires proof.

All are guilty of the original sin, you must repent or suffer eternal damnation!

Sorry, I'm unconvinced by this line of reasoning for the same reason I don't feel obligated to pay for an indulgence to atone my sins.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#217

Post by glerk »

KirinDave wrote: post #201
bra-ket wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can do nothing, once someone calls you 'racist' you're racist for good. I don't know the details of the story, but the thing is with baseless accusations of racism is that it's a perfect slander, one can never prove innocence once proclaimed guilty.

If a San Francisco denizen says to you, "I stepped in human poop" you don't say, "Pics or it didn't happen." That's becuse it's a common occurrence. It's plausible it happened. The same is true of racism in Silicon Valley and the adjoint areas. Being less racist is actually the unusual condition that requires proof.

The burden of proof should not be on the accused. Your comment is a perfect example of things that sound smart because words are put together in a coherent order, but is actually incredibly stupid.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#219

Post by Pfhreak »

nshepperd wrote: post #184

It's interesting how spot-on Coinbase's 'prebuttal' was ( https://blog.coinbase.com/upcoming-story-about-coinbase-2012... ). There's very little in the NYT article that isn't mentioned. The only point of inaccuracy seems to be that the story was published on Friday morning, the day right after the prebuttal, not Sunday as originally suggested. Maybe the prebuttal forced NYT's hand?

The rebuttal said "in print Sunday" and online sometime before.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#220

Post by chris11 »

roenxi wrote: post #191
xenadu02 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've never done this sort of thing before: there's a huge market for these "external consultants". Their unstated job (and reputations) are as whitewashing firms. You hire them to ensure there is "no evidence" of anything done wrong. The primary purpose is to create a credible defense in lawsuits but PR purposes are also common. Firms that find problems suddenly see their business dry up because most companies d…

To repeat the grandparent, what else can they do? Many of the "issues" bought up in this article aren't even problematic. It says John Russ left because Armstrong took public stance that he wanted Coinbase to focus on crypto space stuff. Coinbase's stance there is fair, reasonable and moral. It is desirable that some companies just do what it says on the tin. If Russ had a reason for quitting that was race-related th…

> Armstrong took public stance that he wanted Coinbase to focus on crypto space stuff.

I don't think that he would have taken that public stance if he didn't feel that the company was being distracted internally by racial justice issues. It being a fair response is highly dependent on those internal conversations.

And the NY Times reports that prior to this conversation there was a public meeting where Black employees brought up difficult experiences at Coinbase. Being told that people should leave politics at home or leave the company is a horrible response to complaints about discrimination.

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