It's not like ground-up male chicks are wasted. They're used in dog food, fertilizer and possibly Chicken McNuggets.
World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)
211–220 of 427 posts
Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
I started this year with a couple dozen chickens, a motley crew of heritage breeds. Our (formerly 3) roosters definitely started showing aggression before 6 months. Furthermore, the repeated mounting of the hens is pretty abusive - chicken sex, I'm sorry to say, is pretty much rape. That said, as you noted, on an industrial scale you would separate the roosters. But it's not clear that there's any market at all for r…
I'm surprised you noticed the aggression before 6 months. It's actually hard to even identify roosters as roosters in the first few months. They don't develop their physical traits fully for some time. Re: birds and rape, wait til you see ducks... I should note that there are roosters and then there are roosters. We had a really amazing one, a well bred barred rock who was a real gentleman. They have an important rol…
Also, what's to stop us from breeding fat and delicious roosters? It's amazing what selective breeding can accomplish in a few generations, especially with marker assisted selection. Evolution has its own traits "it" has selected for in roosters, but we could easily have our own.
Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mollusks include Cephalopods like octopus and cuttlefish, which are on the higher side of the consciousness gradient.
Octopus have a pop culture reputation for being intelligent owing to lab maze experiments, but their intelligence isn't well known or defined. They have an average lifespan between 3-6 months to a few years depending on the species. "Until the 1970s, researchers tried to classify the intellectual abilities of different animals and rank them within a universal intelligence scale with humans at the top. That view crumb…
There is this Netflix movie “my octopus teacher” where the octopus develops rather advanced hunting and camouflage techniques. Like how it knows how to handle sharks or how to build a shell for itself to hunt a particular type of food. That seems quite intelligent and beyond observing humans studiously in labs.
Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll rescind it the day I see a vegan suggest there is such a thing as ethical meat/egg consumption. It will never happen.
I don't have a problem with someone who raises a chicken, uses the chicken's natural existence to improve the local environment (fertilizer, etc.), lets that chicken have a life similar to its life in nature, and gives it a lifespan that isn't dramatically shorter than what it experiences in nature. Eating that chicken and its eggs seems fine to me because that seems like a mutualistic relationship. Asking me to endo…
> I suggest listening more to what vegans have to say about veganism rather than what meateaters have to say about it.
That is precisely what brought me to my conclusion.
> As I said before, I think you're prejudiced towards vegans and don't really understand what we're about.
To the extent that I see the vocal base as having an absolutist view compared to yours, yes. If you're insinuating more connotations associated with your choice of words prejudice, no. You don't know me.
That view is not terribly dissimilar from my own, so I'll grant I understand it well. Congrats on defying my expectations. I was confident you would not.
Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nothing's ever enough for vegans. > Would be more interested in seeing more means of producing tasty food without using animals and at reduced costs to the environment. There is increasingly more of that all the time. > On the other hand it just seems like another step into the direction of turning the chickens into optimized food machines. Another step? They aren't getting any more optimized, if anything new availab…
> Nothing's ever enough for vegans. Causing zero harm to animals is enough. It's totally within reach, too. You just have to take responsibility and DO IT.
Thanks for proving my point :)
Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are several responses to the "plants have senses" rebuttal: If you care about the well being of plants, you should still prefer to eat plants rather than animals. The trophic level of animals in the food chain necessitates that they will eat more calories of plant matter than would provide calories of food upon being eaten. Secondly, you should look at the sorts of plants being consumed and where they fall in t…
The "plants have senses rebuttal" as you put it is only an illustration that exposes the absurdity of the whole attachment of ethics to consumption of any form in and of itself. The only logical endpoint is that humans should just off themselves so we don't participate past one cycle of reabsorption into the Earth's environment. One way or another, everything is going to die and be consumed by another living organism…
> The only logical endpoint is that humans should just off themselves so we don't participate past one cycle of reabsorption into the Earth's environment.
That would obliterate all future human happiness. It doesn't stand up even under a cold utilitarian conception of morality.
Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Empathy is great, but unfortunately it's not a fix. There's only so much empathy we can have for the environment around us without giving away everything and getting nothing in return. Having empathy for the needs of your fellow human beings is still empathy, even if it comes at the cost of empathy for animals. Empathy for animals at the cost of empathy for your fellow humans is no more a solution than the other way…
That's a false dichotomy. Who's advocating for less empathy for humans?
Nobody's advocating less empathy for humans, what I'm suggesting is that according to spoon theory, there's only so much in a day you can give a shit about before you burn out [YMMV]. I'm suggesting that when you put all your empathy into caring for one thing at the cost of another, typically yourself, it's a hard path to walk. Empathy as a fix all, isn't. There needs to be balance between what's reasonable, feasible and practical, for our environment, for the eco-system and for us as humans. Empathy for sure is necessary, but it's only part of the solution, not the whole solution.
Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Human nature is very hard to change. What we really need is a societal mechanism that somehow forces (or persuades) those on the extremes to compromise. The U.S. Constitution was designed to be such a mechanism, but it doesn't seem to be standing up well to new technologies.
seems to me the constitution is pretty much working as designed. during polarized times, it makes it very difficult to change things. if you believe all the terrible things written about trump in the news (I do, with some reservations), it's sort of remarkable how little damage he managed to do. we (probably) just elected joe biden, who is almost the definition of a compromise candidate.
> it's sort of remarkable how little damage he managed to do
I think it's much too early to assess the totality of (let me put this in the least inflammatory way that I can think of) Trump's long-term impact. At the very least, he has re-formed the American judiciary, delayed action on climate change by four years, and eroded or eliminated many of the societal and governmental norms that are essential for the functioning of our society (e.g. accepting the results of elections).
But even now, we have North Korea with ICBMs and more nuclear weapons than before, Iran closer to a nuclear weapon than before, and probably a hundred thousand people or so dead from Covid who might not have died if Trump had not politicized the wearing of masks. That's not "little damage" by my reckoning.
There are also a few hundred innocent children who were forcibly separated from their parents and likely will never see them again because of shoddy record-keeping. Despite the relatively small numbers, the sheer monstrousness of this makes it impossible to sweep it under the rug. Trump effectively abandoned the moral high ground that America has held since the end of World War II. America is no longer perceived as a reliable partner, leader of the free world, and beacon of hope. I suppose reasonable people can disagree in their assessment of the long-term impact of this, but in my book, that's not "little damage."
[ADDENDUM] Something else Trump has done is form a significant contingent of the citizenry who now equate the interests of the country with Trump's personal interests, i.e. who believe Trump when he says that we face existential threats that he alone can fix. Ironically, they do this in the name of patriotism and freedom, utterly oblivious to the historical precedents that show time and time again that cults of personality lead to tyranny and ruin. Thankfully, we have not yet crossed that threshold. But we were standing on the brink, and it won't take much to bring us back to it.
[ADDENDUM2] There's also this:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/william-barr-lam...
Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Empathy is great, but unfortunately it's not a fix. There's only so much empathy we can have for the environment around us without giving away everything and getting nothing in return. Having empathy for the needs of your fellow human beings is still empathy, even if it comes at the cost of empathy for animals. Empathy for animals at the cost of empathy for your fellow humans is no more a solution than the other way…
Typically, people who have a higher-than-average concern for the welfare of animals also have a higher-than-average concern for welfare of people. Compassion and empathy seems to grow for both, not be a trade-off. Compare an analogous concern to the one you raise: "what if caring about people of color comes at the cost of empathy for your fellow whites?"
See my note below about spoon theory. I guess I could've been clearer that I meant not a total fix, it won't fix everything on it's own. I didn't mean that it's not part of the solution.
Re: World's first no-kill eggs go on sale in Berlin (2018)
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nothing's ever enough for vegans. No need for a blanket prejudiced statement like this.
I'll rescind it the day I see a vegan suggest there is such a thing as ethical meat/egg consumption. It will never happen.
People are downvoting you because you are making blanket generalizations that don’t meaningfully add to the conversation, and then doubling down on them when challenged. I thought maybe you would like to know what’s happening, but if it’s not wanted sorry to have potentially upset you further.