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Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

ox.ac.uk

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Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#211

Post by nbevans »

mcdowall wrote: post #5

The key differentiator here is the storage requirements (2-8c ‘normal refrigerator’). That’s much more accessible to developing / low GDP countries as opposed the cumbersome and expensive storage requirements of the other two.

I'd argue that it is more accessible to everyone including developed nations. It only requires a standard technology freezer - like that you have in a residential home. COVID-19 has already cost the UK hundreds of billions, so being able to roll out a vaccine with minimum hassle and without needing specialist storage and training on its handling, is an absolutely enormous benefit.

Honestly I feel like this vaccine is going to leave the mRNA-based vaccines trailing in its wake in terms of global government adoption.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#212

Post by em500 »

bleepblorp wrote: post #126
ddeck wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At $3 to $4, many countries will jump on board ASAP and stay away from the expensive vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna. The price difference will likely remain substantial, but in case anyone is unaware, the difference is currently greater due to AstraZeneca pledging to the sell the vaccine at cost "during the pandemic", while Pfizer and Moderna have indicated that they fully intend to profit. [1] Once AstraZeneca de…

[flagged]

And in the next pandemic, be shocked - shocked, that a new vaccine takes 10 years instead of 1 to appear...

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#213

Post by aquadrop »

refurb wrote: post #180
aquadrop wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there somewhere any numbers on how much exactly does it cost? What portion is really "research" and what portion is marketing budget? How much trial phase 1/2/3 cost etc?

I talked to a bunch of CROs about the cost of Phase 3 trials. It varies, but is roughly $10,000 to $15,000 per patient year. Pfizer’s trial will run for 2 years, so ~$900M for the trial alone. That’s excluding all the work to scale up the production, regulatory filing, distribution, etc. Edit: my math sucks. $900M, not $90M

Is it really $10-15k each additional patient year requires or it's more of "total cost was this much, we divide it by number of patients". Where do this money go to? Fx, with these covid trials, 40000 people in pfizer trial, half a year cost would be $200-300 mln. People presumably weren't paid for this. Of course there's some work by doctors that needs to be paid for, but that can't be this large amount. Also, does this all assume USA standards of pricing? Because in rest of the world healthcare is much cheaper.

I just think big pharma are fundamentally ok with huge cost for trials and are not motivated to decrease it/make it more efficient, since they're ok with their pie being larger. They will just shift costs to healthcare system and will be happy with larger profit.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#214

Post by guipsp »

refurb wrote: post #177
bleepblorp wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I’m sure you’d be willing to play that game? Let’s say your job becomes “essential”. The company pays your costs (rent, food) and nothing more. I mean, to “profit” is unacceptable.

I'm sure you realize that the rights of corporations are not the rights of the individual.

I'm also sure that you realize the difference between taking a small profit, and the huge margins big pharma companies have.

In addition, the pharma companies have already been compensated with massive grants.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#215

Post by guipsp »

drran wrote: post #182
pizza234 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pharmaceutical corporations are not exactly well known to seek "fair" profits. Practically speaking, I suppose a hypothetical scenario could be that the: - the companies are granted patents - the vaccine lasts for a limited amount of time - before each patent expiry they companies make minor modifications (say, storage temperature requirement decreased by half a degree) - the company make "unfair" profits by extendin…

It looks like a huge opportunity! Start your own pharmaceutical company and disrupt these bastards! You found the problem, now bring the solution.

Unfortunately, this area has a very high start up cost, which limits disruption. This is the big problem when people say "just disrupt".

In addition, the aforementioned patents prevent disruption. Even long after the original patent expires.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#216

Post by guipsp »

HPsquared wrote: post #190
madaxe_again wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see why it’s any different to war profiteering. Legal, yes - moral, debatable.

Except for how, you know, weapons and medicines have slightly different effects when used.

Well, only to the extent that you distinguish killing someone via weapons and just letting them die via preventable disease.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#217

Post by bobcostas55 »

PunchTornado wrote: post #193
evandijk70 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are currently 54 vaccines being tested on humans. Getting the necessary data to obtain approval for human testing requires a lot of funding. Testing on humans requires a lot of funding. In the end, maybe 4 vaccines will be used. Do you think the companies that produced and tested the ~50 vaccines that will not be used will get their investment back?

yes, all of these vaccine research are funded by the taxpayer.

[citation needed]

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#218

Post by Gibbon1 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #72
dragontamer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Across all type of Vaccine, what are the average or median effective rate? i.e Should we expect Vaccine to be 90%+ effective in the first place? Or is that a wrong expectation to make? Sometimes, vaccines are only 30% or 40% effective, leading to terrible flu seasons. I don't really know the mean/median/mode, but 90% is really high for a vaccine. > 3. What happens in the case of 10% ineffective, do they take a t…

The flu vaccine problem is mostly that there are always several strains floating around. A vaccine that is 90% effective against one strain may only be 40% effective against the collective.

Yeah. Influenza is also a segmented virus. The RNA is composed of eight segments. The virus can produce new strains by shuffling segments between to different strains when a cell is infected by both. Influenza can mutate very quickly.

Simple single stranded viruses like Covid19 are vastly more stable. A good vaccine as long as we force everyone to take it will wipe out covid19.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#219

Post by arrrg »

camkego wrote: post #16

This statement seems a big deal: "There were no hospitalised or severe cases in anyone who received the vaccine" Is that also true of the Pfizer and Moderna trials? Are the various trials measuring 'effectiveness' in the same way? Is there a standard for 'effectiveness' in these Covid-19 trials? It will take some digging and real effort to compare the risks and benefits of the various vaccines coming to market.

This is the information we have on the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine regarding severe cases: “There were 10 severe cases of COVID-19 observed in the trial, with nine of the cases occurring in the placebo group and one in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group.”

Just as a reminder, that vaccine had more than 40k people in each group, with 170 cases of COVID-19 being observed, 162 in the placebo group, 8 in the vaccine group.

As you can see, the sample sizes get quite small, so I’m not sure how much, if anything, this tells you regarding severe cases. There could have been just as well no severe case in the treatment group, just by luck. What would that tell us?

I didn’t find any info regarding severe cases and the Moderna vaccine but I maybe I missed it. Those press releases are hard to read.

My source is Pfizer’s press release: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta...

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#220

Post by _Gyan_ »

pessimist wrote: post #154
aquadrop wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't it warrant a research if even smaller dose has even higher efficiency?

Yes. But clinical trials are expensive ($100m plus) and time consuming.

If both regimens underwent Phase 2 testing, there should be data on comparative immunogenicity.
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