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Amazon launches Amazon Pharmacy for prescription medicine delivery

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Re: Amazon launches Amazon Pharmacy for prescription medicine delivery

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support price controls in the US, and the government manufacturing generics if necessary (stepping in if the private sector won't due to it not being profitable enough). EDIT: I removed an unrelated paragraph about Planned Parenthood and drug supply chain I thought was out of scope.

The US Pharma market is full of "found $20 bills" that just shouldn't exist if markets were as efficient as people wishcast they would be. I'd love for someone to rationalize PBMs in the same manner they rationalize every other horrible inefficiency in US health care.

> The US Pharma market is full of "found $20 bills" that just shouldn't exist if markets were as efficient as people wishcast they would be

This presupposes that the US pharma market (and healthcare writ large) constitute an actual market. It's really not, by just about any measure. The only thing remotely resembling a "market" is the fact that insurance is predominately provided by the private sector for profit. Outside of that, the industry is ridden with the worst combination of distortionary incentives and regulations. The fact that healthcare is tied to employment didn't happen by accident, it's the net result of WW2-era wage ceilings, followed by 1970's tax deductibility for employer group plans, followed by the ACA employer mandate. I'd describe the US as combining the worst of public healthcare systems with the worst of privatized systems. PBMs and every other horrible inefficiency of US healthcare aren't some accident of a functioning market.

Re: Amazon launches Amazon Pharmacy for prescription medicine delivery

#212
post #2

Just a heads up, if you use this service PillPack and Amazon Employees have full access to your entire prescription history. Full name, social everything - it was common for employees to look up the info of celebrities / other employees for fun. Any prescription / healthcare info you give them will be sold back to SureScripts and used to sell you more garbage from Amazon ;) https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-mail-or…

Far be it for me to dispute the knowledge of a random throwaway, but I'd be surprised if there Amazon didn't have access controls to prevent looking up customer prescription history. I know the hoops I have to go through just to access customer resource metadata in AWS Support. There are multiple, auditable checks that force you to provide access justification to resources -- and the process is routinely modified to…

Nope. Any PillPack developer can look up any customer in seconds. Other employees have more limited access, but generally quite a bit of access. Access is logged in production, but developers can also get a clone of the entire production database pretty easily.

That's not necessarily a problem or a HIPAA violation, depending on how it's used, although the opportunity for abuse exists. They cover their ass with annual HIPAA training.

Re: Amazon launches Amazon Pharmacy for prescription medicine delivery

#213
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really believe the government will do a better job?

I think the USA Military branch of the government does a very good job managing their resources. Why would it be different in other branch?

Why would it be different in other branch?

Lack of choice; the government has captured the "market", and "consumers" can't choose to go anywhere else. Compare to the service (and especially customer service) offered by your cable/internet provider where you have not choice. The cable companies vie for literally worst customer service of all businesses year in and year out.

And we know that the government is doing an awful job in regulation of healthcare. I've got kind of a front-row seat to this and see things that most might not, since my wife's whole career has been in healthcare finance, and in particular around how Medicare reimburses hospitals for services.

She's currently working with one client hospital for whom their Medicare cost report still hasn't been resolved for some years back even before 2010. How can a business operate efficiently when they don't know what their expenses are going to be - not just in the future, but even historically, more than 10 years into the past?

Worse, the way the government forces hospitals to report this stuff is extremely specific, and optimized for how Medicare wants to run things - which is why Medicare can claim to spend less on administration: they just force hospitals to do all the administration for them. And hospitals can't say "no", with Medicare (together with Medicaid, which generally rides on Medicare's regulatory coattails) comprising a plurality of the market, if not an outright majority. The result of this is that hospitals have a choice of either running two separate accounting systems (one for what Medicare demands, and another to do rational cost accounting), or more likely, to just do the one for Medicare and muddle along as best they can. And that's a major reason why hospitals can't operate more efficiently.

And my wife's currently involved in a battle with them over some detailed rules they posted early in the summer. She's been working all summer for her client hospitals based on what the government posted on their website. Last week they changed the rules posted (you can even see the "last changed" date). But the change was in a way that contradicts their previous statements, and invalidates much of what she did all summer - and worse, they're lying about it, not admitting to what the previous version of the page said. Unfortunately the wayback machine didn't track that site, and while she's got her own records quoting the page, the gov't won't acknowledge it.

So there's a clear explanation for why it can get bad, and tons of evidence that it really is bad.

Re: Amazon launches Amazon Pharmacy for prescription medicine delivery

#214
post #32
post #8

As a British citizen, this is so disturbing to me.

As an American resident, I couldn't be more excited for Amazon to disrupt the reprehensible anti-customer practices endemic to the US healthcare system. Recently, I had a runny nose and no fever and thought, "what the heck, let's get a COVID test", and found out they are $200+ here in Austin.

There are plenty of free programs in Austin. Also if you have insurance, you have access to free testing de facto.

https://www.austintexas.gov/covid-testinfo

Re: Amazon launches Amazon Pharmacy for prescription medicine delivery

#215
post #111
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised, there's some serious shenanigans on medicine pricing and insurances. Medicine prices are clearly inflated when you can buy at a huge discount using insurance, but then you can get apps like GoodRX, which is free and give you coupons that far exceed my insurance discount on every single time I had to fill a prescription. To the point that I don't even bother going through insurance anymore. I saved…

I'm curious who or what the end goal of GoodRx is. They pay for expensive ($$$$$$) cloud anti-bot/anti-scraping, captcha you after a few requests if you run adblock, they pay for extensive browser/device (attempting to reidentify a user across multiple devices/multiple browsers) fingerprinting services and Fastly. The site loads a dozen trackers, googletagmanager, branch, segment, what are they doing with this data?…

> They pay for expensive ($$$$$$) cloud anti-bot/anti-scraping, captcha you after a few requests if you run adblock, they pay for extensive browser/device (attempting to reidentify a user across multiple devices/multiple browsers) fingerprinting services and Fastly.

This sounds like a great anti-account takeover program. I imagine with all of the various compliance programs they have to deal with and the legal risk, these are prudent measures.

Re: Amazon launches Amazon Pharmacy for prescription medicine delivery

#217
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really believe the government will do a better job?

I think the USA Military branch of the government does a very good job managing their resources. Why would it be different in other branch?

You really think that? The US spends more on its military per capita than just about any other country, save for Israel. The F-35 has been one of the US military's more noteworthy embarrassments, chronically behind schedule and over budget.

The US Military runs the VA, and that's also been a noteworthy embarrassment -> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/28/va-veterans-affairs-history-...

Outside of raw warfare, the military runs almost entirely on cost-plus, which results in over-spending of contract money for boondoggles that just entrench the military industrial complex.

Outside of the US military, you have systematic inefficiencies like this across most major agencies.

NASA's planned SLS moon mission is a bit of a disaster — way over budget and way behind schedule. Because the boosters aren't reusable, each launch is expected to cost $1B (with a B) dollars — EACH launch! Meanwhile SpaceX's target cost-per-launch is $50M.

In healthcare, Medicare has actually been running a fairly interesting A/B test. When you turn 65, you have the option to enroll either in "Original Medicare", which is what we usually think of when we talk about "single payer healthcare in America", or you can enroll in Medicare Advantage (aka Medicare "Part C"), where the premiums that would go to the CMS instead go to private insurers like Humana, United, Oscar Health, Clover, etc. These plans replace Original Medicare, also cover Part D prescription drug benefits, and often include supplemental benefits that Original Medicare doesn't already cover. The outcomes are fairly interesting:

- 36% of Medicare beneficiaries are on private Medicare Advantage plans instead of the public "Original Medicare". Because everyone is entitled to "Original Medicare", this is purely voluntary. This number has been growing so rapidly, that we expect by 2025, more seniors to be on a private plan than the public one. There's also great variance by State. In Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Oregon, Alabama, Hawaii, and Connecticut — over 40% of beneficiaries are on Medicare Advantage. By 2022, we expect more seniors in those States to be on a private plan than a public one. https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/a-dozen-facts-about...

- For most beneficiaries, Medicare Advantage costs about 39% less than Original Medicare. https://healthpayerintelligence.com/news/medicare-advantage-...

- Medicare Advantage plans are, on average, of higher quality than the public "Original Medicare" https://healthpayerintelligence.com/news/medicare-advantage-...

- In Urban areas, Medicare Advantage costs less per capita to administer than Medicare — and that's not including the extra Medicare Part D insurance that you would have to buy if you're on the Original Medicare plan. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2... From this same research, public "Original Medicare" is still cheaper in rural areas, but not by a whole lot.

So yeah, while the governments of a lot of countries are fairly robust and efficient, I think that suspicion is warranted, especially in the US.

Re: Amazon launches Amazon Pharmacy for prescription medicine delivery

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the USA Military branch of the government does a very good job managing their resources. Why would it be different in other branch?

Why would it be different in other branch? Lack of choice; the government has captured the "market", and "consumers" can't choose to go anywhere else. Compare to the service (and especially customer service) offered by your cable/internet provider where you have not choice. The cable companies vie for literally worst customer service of all businesses year in and year out. And we know that the government is doing an…

> which is why Medicare can claim to spend less on administration

In addition to this, it's worth pointing out that the idea that Medicare is the solution to all of our problems because of the cost savings of administration is way over-stated.

There's a pretty great breakdown of where per capita costs go in the US vs comparable OECD countries -> https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/what-drives-health...

Administrative costs make up a tiny percentage of the overall cost differential. You could basically zero it out, and it would still hardly make a dent on the overall cost difference.

Re: Amazon launches Amazon Pharmacy for prescription medicine delivery

#219
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's the whole point. SNAP and directed subsidies are decidedly NOT the same as government prices-setting. The analog in healthcare is targeted subsidies for poor people that cannot afford care, not government negotiation and price setting. Making sure everyone has access to healthcare is, for the most part, a universally held goal. The disagreement is whether the only way to achieve that is through government…

“Access” in this context is just a weasel-word cooked up by hospitals and insurance companies to protect their bottom lines. Almost every other wealthy, developed country guarantees healthcare itself, not the right to get surprise billed or screwed by your insurance company. And even those countries that are closer to the American model (e.g Germany and the Netherlands) don’t let these industries get away with egregi…

> Almost every other wealthy, developed country guarantees healthcare itself, not the right to get surprise billed or screwed by your insurance company.

I'm not sure who argued that "the right to not get surprise billed or screwed by your insurance company" is the optimum solution. The argument is that guaranteeing access to healthcare itself is attainable without price controls.

> SNAP and ag subsidies are also just price controls with extra steps

They're really not. The closest analog would be to institute a basic income that's earmarked for health insurance premiums. We don't have that today, at least in a uniform way (ACA subsidies come close).

Re: Amazon launches Amazon Pharmacy for prescription medicine delivery

#220
post #45
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they do a better job in lots of other countries? I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that a lot of the countries with socialized medicine such that their government is the one negotiating with drug manufacturers pay substantially less for drugs than customers in the US.

I've been reading some books on the medical industry and one of the things pointed out is that the price controls will often not provide enough profit to R&D new drugs. That the US ends up subsidizing a lot of R&D cost that everyone benefits from. If this is the case, I wonder what would happen to drug development if that goes away. Note, I'm not saying there's not too much profit from drugs. These statements don't h…

The NIH already funds a significant amount of drug R&D in the US.
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