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EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

statewatch.org

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Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#211

Post by alkonaut »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #193
alkonaut wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We expect privacy in "unencrypted" phone calls, but seem happy that law enforcement can eavesdrop on 4G when they have to. Not sure how much more privacy people expect. If you explain to people how much privacy they give up just clicking a random facebook questionnaire - they nod and then still do. Privacy and integrity is important but it will never match e.g. "terrorism" or "safety" on the list of important issues…

> We expect privacy in "unencrypted" phone calls, but seem happy that law enforcement can eavesdrop on 4G when they have to. Don't assume that "we" are happy about that. You might be; others are not. Unbreakable encryption should be available to everyone, and straightforward for everyone to use, and used by default rather than only for "sensitive" information. Unbreakable encryption should be so widely used that the…

> Don't assume that "we" are happy about that. You might be; others are not.

I don't want to suggest everyone is happy with the status quo, but it's at least not one of the top items on everyone's agenda for change.

> Unbreakable encryption should be available to everyone, and straightforward for everyone to use, and used by default rather than only for "sensitive" information. Unbreakable encryption should be so widely used that the thought never even occurs to anyone to associate it with wrongdoing. Communication using unbreakable encryption should simply be "communication".

I agree with you - but I also doubt it will happen. Not because of some government conspiracy but because I don't for a second believe that people would choose "government can't tap a criminal's phone call or text messages even with a court order" as an acceptable drawback for the benefit "my own conversations are always secure". I really don't. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though. So I simply don't think there is any democratic pressure for it.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#212

Post by part1of2 »

Arathorn wrote: post #43

https://matrix.org/blog/2020/10/19/combating-abuse-in-matrix... is our attempt at Matrix to spell out what a catastrophic idea it is to backdoor end-to-end encryption (and to provide an alternative proposal in the form of using decentralised reputation to mitigate abuse. We're kicking decentralised reputation work off in earnest tomorrow, so watch this space to see how it goes). I guess we'll be weighing in on the EU…

What about proposing encryption as an EU human right? Has that been attempted?

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#213

Post by markvdb »

Arathorn wrote: post #43

https://matrix.org/blog/2020/10/19/combating-abuse-in-matrix... is our attempt at Matrix to spell out what a catastrophic idea it is to backdoor end-to-end encryption (and to provide an alternative proposal in the form of using decentralised reputation to mitigate abuse. We're kicking decentralised reputation work off in earnest tomorrow, so watch this space to see how it goes). I guess we'll be weighing in on the EU…

Thank you Matthew!

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#215

Post by trhway »

prohibiting encryption practically means prohibiting speech whenever government can't understand it or even just when government can suspect that there is another interpretation possible (would be one more reason for the straight very simple language in 1984). That naturally leads to government having right to demand a detailed explanation to any speech and actions to the full understanding/satisfaction by the government. I mean that belly dance moves may be an encrypted sequence carrying an secret message. Now, try to prove (to the full satisfaction of that polite government bureaucrat) that is isn't.

Conspiracy theory - wise : how about an idea that the authorities let the terrorist act to happen (as they had been warned in advance about the guy) in order to have pretext to make further push for tightening of the screws ( Belarus has just again shown the power of social media communication channels and that couldn't have been missed by the powers-to-be). I mean it is kind of curious how immediately after the terrorist act where AK-47 was used there is an attack on encryption instead of say on AK-47 sales.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#217

Post by tom_mellior »

intricatedetail wrote: post #110
tom_mellior wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not from the Parliament. This is from the Council of Ministers. All shitty ideas in the EU come from there or from the Commission. These bodies are not elected and have very little, and very indirect, democratic legitimation.

It is also eye opening to watch how MEP vote. This is a farce and has nothing to do with democracy. They just want to enslave and control all Europeans.

You might want to provide more intricate detail about what you mean.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#218

Post by feanaro »

part1of2 wrote: post #212
Arathorn wrote: post #43

https://matrix.org/blog/2020/10/19/combating-abuse-in-matrix... is our attempt at Matrix to spell out what a catastrophic idea it is to backdoor end-to-end encryption (and to provide an alternative proposal in the form of using decentralised reputation to mitigate abuse. We're kicking decentralised reputation work off in earnest tomorrow, so watch this space to see how it goes). I guess we'll be weighing in on the EU…

What about proposing encryption as an EU human right? Has that been attempted?

I don't know whether this has been tried before, but it is definitely the right move. The governments should be busy fighting and trying to shut down our proposals and not the other way around.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#219

Post by sixhobbits »

My german isn't that good, but from what I understand and from the translation below, the source seems a bit conspiratorial.

I completely agree with the concerns raised elsewhere in this thread, but I'm not sure I see the clear link to recent events in Vienna etc claimed here.

Here[0] is an earlier document from 21 october which the article seems to take some screenshots from, so it seems that this has been coming either way.

I wonder how this effects countries like Switzerland and the UK?

[0] https://www.statewatch.org/media/1434/eu-council-draft-decla...

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#220

Post by TechBro8615 »

Arathorn wrote: post #43

https://matrix.org/blog/2020/10/19/combating-abuse-in-matrix... is our attempt at Matrix to spell out what a catastrophic idea it is to backdoor end-to-end encryption (and to provide an alternative proposal in the form of using decentralised reputation to mitigate abuse. We're kicking decentralised reputation work off in earnest tomorrow, so watch this space to see how it goes). I guess we'll be weighing in on the EU…

Matrix is awesome. Also, doesn’t the French government use Matrix? Are they trying to outlaw their own policies?
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