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Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

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Re: Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

#211

Post by lastofthemojito »

ryandrake wrote: post #207
lastofthemojito wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we'll see a lot of people try to game it: * Not updating their address with their company after moving to a new, lower-cost location * Using the address of family or friends in a higher-cost area * Renting a PO Box or cheap room or studio in a high-cost area, but spending most time elsewhere I'd imagine we'll see companies pop up offering address verification services - physically and/or digitally tailing emp…

I'd expect to see this too, but I think anyone planning to do these tactics is walking an extremely thin line between "gaming the system" and fraud. Not to be Debbie Downer, but if someone is thinking about getting a PO box in SF and funneling all their work connections through a silicon valley VPN, they should think about how it will look in front of a judge when their company goes after them.

Yeah, I wouldn't do any of the things I listed either. The potential punishment way outweighs the potential gains. But some people just can't resist trying to "beat the system" or "stick it to The Man" or whatever.

I also wonder how things will go for people who take up the digital nomad lifestyle. I think most digital nomads thus far have been freelancers, entrepreneurs, etc. But big Microsoft-esque employers, much like the US tax system, are going to expect you to have a fixed address. If I'm currently based in India but sell my home to hop from location to location every couple of months, am I permanently on India-level pay? What if I did the same thing but had started in Silicon Valley? Can I keep getting that Silicon Valley pay as long as I don't stay in one place too long? Or maybe nomads default to a baseline pay level?

Re: Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

#212

Post by h1srf »

marketingPro wrote: post #63
ahelwer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're single and willing to pay over $500/month you can get some pretty okay health insurance. Families throw a huge wrench in that plan though. Currently I'm just using COBRA. Nothing crystalizes support for medicare-for-all faster than ten seconds looking at the public health insurance marketplace.

Since you posted the myth that health insurance is better when you pay more, I highly recommend reading this article explaining why the lowest cost plan is likely the best during the most expensive medical situations https://efficiencyiseverything.com/engineering-conclusions-o... Don't get me wrong, healthcare is the most corrupt industry in the United States (by lobbying dollars). But I give some blame to my peers f…

> Make sure your hospital, clinics, doctors, accept your insurance

I understand what they're saying but no one plans to get sick (pregnancies aside). Cheaper plans within the same insurance group is probably ok. Which hospital you can go to can be the difference between life and death, especially these days: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/nyregion/Coronavirus-hosp...

Re: Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

#213

Post by qes »

davidf560 wrote: post #131
ghaff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that if (even just keeping the discussion to the US) a company pays, say, Chicago wages everywhere, that means they effectively probably can't hire anyone in the Bay Area for example. Of course, a lot of companies already basically don't try to salary match the hire who has an offer from Facebook or Google in SV and wants to work there.

Maybe this is overly simplistic, but won't this all work itself out over time? More companies refuse to pay inflated SV salaries (note: most companies in the world already do not employ people there anyway), so some of the concentrated SV talent leaves for other places like Chicago where they can still get a sufficient wage relative to the cost of living. This continues for a while and eventually the COL in SV will s…

> Maybe this is overly simplistic... eventually the COL in SV will start to equalize with other places in the country like Chicago, won't it?

Chicago with an actual winter will likely never have the demand that California with it's year-round outdoor weather will have.

If costs were completely identical, would you rather live in Illinois or the Bay? How many other people you know would say the Bay?

Re: Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

#214

Post by animationwill »

ahelwer wrote: post #14
x87678r wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

health insurance is my big wish. 20 hrs/wk with health insurance I'd work for 1/3rd my salary. EDIT: I have a family like most people. EDIT2: I'm thinking about how insurance isn't as expensive as giving up more than that in salary, but maybe I need the security of steady work on the resume, sick leave and a job to lean on if things get tough.

If you're single and willing to pay over $500/month you can get some pretty okay health insurance. Families throw a huge wrench in that plan though. Currently I'm just using COBRA. Nothing crystalizes support for medicare-for-all faster than ten seconds looking at the public health insurance marketplace.

How long can you use COBRA for after leaving an employer? I tried to find that answer, but the info was conflicting on the Internet. Is it 18 months?

Re: Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

#215

Post by nwienert »

apexalpha wrote: post #194
nsgi wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That gender gap sounds rather concerning

You're getting downvoted, but you're right. Traditional family values still resonate in these numbers and many people blame women working part-time for a gender imbalance at the top of companies. So that gender imbalance is definitely on the agenda. Whether you think these numbers are concerning depends on your political stance.

If women on average prefer to work less hours isn’t the concerning thing the people who seem to want to force them to work more? Especially when it’s oftentimes men that call this a “problem”?

It seems unless you have some data showing their preference is to work more but they are limited by something externally forced on them, and you’d need data not opinion, you shouldn’t be concern-trolling.

Women buy more dresses than men, is this a concern we should address?

Re: Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

#216

Post by neogodless »

jsjohnst wrote: post #151
neogodless wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I contracted in 2018, I paid $650-700/month for a pretty good "silver" insurance plan covering my wife (34 then) and I (39 then). Definitely varies by state and availability of insurers. But it was by choice... 1099 rate easily covered all taxes and insurance with room to spare and allowed be to set up a solo LLC and dump a buttload of pre-tax money into a 401(k)... About $53k in one year. Taking time off was ha…

> dump a buttload of pre-tax money into a 401(k)... About $53k in one year. That’s like double the IRS allowed maximum for pre-tax 401k deferral in a year, no? This is not my area of expertise so I could easily be unaware of something. Can you explain how you did this as I’m genuinely curious and want to do the same.

np-1 has it right. As a small business employing yourself, you can "profit share" much more than the $19k individual limit.

Re: Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

#217

Post by nabaraz »

animationwill wrote: post #214
ahelwer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're single and willing to pay over $500/month you can get some pretty okay health insurance. Families throw a huge wrench in that plan though. Currently I'm just using COBRA. Nothing crystalizes support for medicare-for-all faster than ten seconds looking at the public health insurance marketplace.

How long can you use COBRA for after leaving an employer? I tried to find that answer, but the info was conflicting on the Internet. Is it 18 months?

18 months is the standard.

It goes like:

Employee's quitting, termination or reduction in hours: 18 months

Employee's divorce: 36 months

It can be further extended based on other events like disability, partner's illness etc.

Re: Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

#218

Post by animationwill »

ma2rten wrote: post #50
popotamonga wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come its so expensive? The top top insurance in my european country is $100 and a pretty good is 30.

I think there are two parts to the answer. Firstly, health care in the US is extremely expensive. There are long articles written about this but IMO a main reason is market failure. The US, especially republicans, place a lot of value on free markets but people are willing to pay almost anything not to die. The second part of the story is that the US is richer than Europe. I moved to the US from Western Europe. Befor…

> but people are willing to pay almost anything not to die.

No, not really. This is a narrow picture of reality. People are often willing to sabotage their own bodies and drive their bodies toward obesity, clogged arteries, and liver disease while not spending the money to go to a doctor for annual checkups or flu shots.

The dollar menu is cheaper & tastier option than buying a salad and people consistently choose the cheaper, tastier option

Re: Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

#219

Post by ghaff »

nwienert wrote: post #215
apexalpha wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting downvoted, but you're right. Traditional family values still resonate in these numbers and many people blame women working part-time for a gender imbalance at the top of companies. So that gender imbalance is definitely on the agenda. Whether you think these numbers are concerning depends on your political stance.

If women on average prefer to work less hours isn’t the concerning thing the people who seem to want to force them to work more? Especially when it’s oftentimes men that call this a “problem”? It seems unless you have some data showing their preference is to work more but they are limited by something externally forced on them, and you’d need data not opinion, you shouldn’t be concern-trolling. Women buy more dresses…

In general, I think the concern is whether it's a gender role that women are being forced into as opposed to something that they really are choosing voluntarily. Those two things can be hard to separate though. During the current pandemic, the data I've seen suggests that women are disproportionately dropping out of the workforce for childcare and other reasons. Of course if someone has to drop out of the workforce in a family, that may or may not be a "fair" response.

Re: Microsoft is letting employees work from home permanently

#220

Post by 0xffff2 »

jjav wrote: post #206
Sytten wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this so much. I have been working part time for almost a year now to rebuild a house and it has been very nice. It always seemed weird to me that people make such high salaries in tech but just don't value time as the main commodity of our lives. The reality is that if you move to a low CoL area and work part-time you will almost certainly be happier. But this doesn't mean you are idle the rest of the ti…

> It always seemed weird to me that people make such high salaries in tech but just don't value time as the main commodity of our lives. It's not about valuing it, the problem is that finding jobs which allow part-time work is just about impossible. I'd give anything for a job where I can work 40% time for 40% salary, but those don't exist. My wife has managed to arrange 80% time for 80% pay at the G of FAANG for a c…

Stories like this remind me that maybe my low-six-figure salary in the bay area isn't that bad after all. I may be dramatically underpaid by FANNG standards, but I'm never asked to work overtime and I'm free to take PTO whenever I want.
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