China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet • Hacker News Board

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#211

Post by reaperducer » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:20 PM UTC

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff.

I happily pay more for things not made in China, when I can.

When I can buy an iPhone that's not made in China, I'll buy it. Even if it means a downgrade.

Several of my family members buy as many vintage and second-hand goods as they can. Not to be hipsters (are hipsters still a thing anymore?), but because they do not want to support China.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#212

Post by bobbyz » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:21 PM UTC

arbitrary_name wrote: post #189

shrewduser wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude have you been to hawaii? their culture is very much in tact and proud. Not only that but locals have special rights and privileges over mainlanders not the reverse.

I've lived there and I can tell you that many Hawaiians are not appreciative of being colonized, nor should they be. Having their own flag and extra labor laws does not ameliorate the injustices and negative consequences of colonization. Nor am I qualified to talk, I just want to point out that many of my Hawaiian friends would not in any way agree with your statement, and it is worth factoring that in to the broader…

Woah! How rude of you to shatter their fanciful delusions of a people they can't relate to with those people's actual opinions!

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#213

Post by platinumrad » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #177

jjcon wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Britain and Spain colonized Hawaii in the 1500s nobody can criticize China for using forced labor in the 2020s? That takes some serious mental gymnastics.

Are you thinking of the Philipines or Puerto Rico? Hawaii was never colonized by the Spanish. That said, I don't mind to refute the larger point. In fact, I would make Puerto Rico independent in conjunction with recognizing Taiwan.

Puerto Rico should be granted statehood, not independence, unless you want it to be an impoverished client of the United States.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#214

Post by smithza » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

  > But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff.

Thinking of Lebron James who hypocritically spoke up about BLM and not about human rights abuses in China[1]. We cannot place our hopes in capitalism to deal with these human-rights atrocities, even though there is much the NBA could do to use their financial power to influence the region and demand change. MLK would use boycotts to force racist businesses to grapple with losing the black people's dollar if they did not stand up for justice. We can still learn from this; the Western gov'ts are not the only players in this game.

[1] https://www.newsweek.com/lebron-james-nba-players-told-move-...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#215

Post by platinumrad » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #178

coldtea wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so if a reformed mob boss sees other mobsters extorting people, he cannot step in and stop them because he did the same thing in the past? Reformed? LOL. > i really don't understand this kind of ethical reasoning, just sounds like pious excuses to sit on our hands It's the ethical imperative of: - not being a hypocrite, - being the change you want to see in the world, and putting your house in order first - the old…

This why I say pair criticism of China with penance. For example, give up Puerto Rico and Hawaii but recognize Taiwan at the same time. China may not officially give a shit, but Europe and many former colonies should.

Puerto Rico does not want to be "given up". It wants, and deserves, statehood. A so-called "independent" Puerto Rico would be nothing more than an impoverished client of the United States.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#216

Post by bamboozled » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #30

Is it a sign of internal struggles that China is trying to foment foreign relations 'situations' to divert attention? I really wish the world would rescue Tibet from China.

It's a good question and I wondered the same, why start all this ?

They probably could've had more success with the long game as the world became more and more reliant on them.

Now, it seems there is an urgent need to escalate ?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#217

Post by toomanybeersies » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:25 PM UTC

platinumrad wrote: post #187

rtx wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not only that, they have many politicians on their books. Even western publications are warry about highlighting what's happening prominently. Today a NYPD officer was caught spying for them. https://abc7ny.com/nypd-spying-baimadajie-angwang-tibetan-of... (caution playing video)

>Its not only that, they have many politicians on their books. Citation needed, please. A cop is not a politician.

There's plenty of accusations being thrown around, but generally no hard proof that they're directly controlled by the Chinese Government (read into that whichever way you want).

Off the top of my head, there's:

Shaoquett Moselmane, Australian state politician. Recently had her home raided by the Australian Federal Police in relation to Chinese espionage (details are scant, due to the ongoing investigation)

Sam Dastyari, Australian federal politician. Resigned due to donations from Chinese entities

Jian Yang, NZ member of parliament. Former member of the CCP and civilian member of the PLA.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#218

Post by bobbyz » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

jariel wrote: post #127

coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

Wait, are Hawaiians put into forced labour camps? Can they own property? Businesses? Vote? Can the run for Congress, Senate, President? Are they taught that they cannot have their heritage? "whataboutism'.

The Japanese were interned during WWII, illegals are in camps now, and the Chinese will likely be soon. Puerto Ricans STILL can't vote.

Its important to build your argument from sturdy facts, so that big bad reality can't huff and puff and blow it all down!

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#219

Post by chmod600 » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

chillacy wrote: post #206

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

I was reading an account from the Roman Empire about parents begrudgingly using the imperial language while their kids grew up completely “Roman”. Then I reflected that if you go back far enough we all have a great^N parent who was in this situation. Someone else in their reply mentioned Hawaii and the US but even Hawaii was unified by force by King Kamehameha. I’ve come to an uneasy acceptance of the fact that we’re…

"I’ve come to an uneasy acceptance of the fact that we’re all the conquerors and the conquered."

We all have to accept the past. We don't need to accept that the future will be the same.

There are many ways that different areas and cultures can share an assimilate. Trade, travel, multilingualism, federations, mutually-agreed democratic annexation, shared constitutions, diplomacy, immigration, intermarriage, etc.

Coercion is not the only option.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#220

Post by jtdev » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #211

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. I happily pay more for things not made in China, when I can. When I can buy an iPhone that's not made in China, I'll buy it. Even if it means a downgrade. Several of my family members buy as many vintage and second-hand goods as they can. Not to be hipsters (are hipsters still a thing anymore?), but because they do not want to support China.

I too go to great lengths to avoid purchasing Chinese made products. It seems that manufacturers and sellers are now trying to hide country of origin labeling, which is absolutely infuriating.