Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 236 posts

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#211

Post by harha »

ryneandal wrote: post #192
Joeri wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supposedly windows 10X will be that thing. I have to say I find the settings / control panel dichotomy issue overblown. I rarely need to go into control panel anymore, and pretty much never without it being a clickthrough from the new settings app.

> I have to say I find the settings / control panel dichotomy issue overblown Agreed. The task bar search finds the setting I'm looking for about 99% of the time.

I usually do too, but then again I don't change settings all the time, so it's mostly initial set-up where I spend a while in the settings app or control panel and this is where the problems come together: 1. at least for my preferences there's just too much happening out of the box, e.g. "Explore", "Create", the whole Xbox business, all the notifications, the colors and design - so there's a lot I have to change so I'm not distracted all the time. 2. the number of menus and different places I need to go to to get my setup the way I want it and how inconsistent these are.

I could probably set up a custom image but I prefer to get the most recent build when setting up and would appreciate it being as clean and minimalistic as a fresh install of macOS (yes there are some things here too, but you have to look for it) or Linux. The plain Windows setup feels like how preinstalled systems used to be with all sorts of "helpful" apps that automatically start and make the system look "nice".

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#212

Post by fartcannon »

thsowers wrote: post #165
de_watcher wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not FUD. It's the Microsoft's never-changing strategy. I don't know how many times people need to experience it to remember this.

I think it is uncharitable to assert that a company that is 45 years old has a strategy that is "never-changing". There is no denying that Microsoft has been hostile to Linux and open source efforts before, but it doesn't mean that this would never change. Last I checked, Microsoft was the largest contributor to open source projects, and Satya Nadella seems to embrace FOSS

I don't see what they've done to earn your trust. You just want to believe theyre different, just like the parent wants to believe theyre not. The truth is probably in the middle.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#213

Post by rbanffy »

ryneandal wrote: post #191
rbanffy wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons I actively avoid buying Nvidia hardware - their Linux support is borderline criminal.

I dislike their shady practices as much as anyone else, but calling their lack of driver support on a platform outside of their market segment "borderline criminal" is wildly hyperbolic.

A bit hyperbolic, perhaps. Still very bothersome.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#214

Post by rbanffy »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #181
rbanffy wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I really need to run a Windows application, I fire up a VM and use it. KVM's desktop experience is lacking, but VirtualBox is excellent. And the VMs are nicely contained, disk volumes can have copy-on-write snapshots, and the volumes can even be made immutable - you shut the VM down and, when you restart, it's back to its immutable state. This is becoming less than practical thanks to various self-updating thing…

But they are slow and/or require more expensive hardware. Dual booting or these para-virtualized solutions help somewhat. Time efficiency, finances, and technical aptitude may vary widely.

It's a trade-off. It's a bit slower, but not much, and you'll need to have a little extra memory, say 4 gigabytes, if you want to do everything inside the VM and just have some breathing room outside it. OTOH, you'll get the isolation I mentioned and the safety of doing backups with full volume snapshots.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#215

Post by phkahler »

derefr wrote: post #176
phkahler wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This sounds promising, something closer to OSX would give apple competition for devs like myself that want a linux based system and a fluffy "it-just-works" gui No, don't. That seems to be what they want. It's not about running linux apps on Windows. It's about blending the two so that even Linux apps are dependent on Microsft APIs and such. What is the point of bringing native DX12 to linux if not that? BTW they…

> What is the point of bringing native DX12 to linux if not that? Oh, easy: it’s so games written for DX12 on Windows—that are currently run on Linux using Wine—can have a direct, low-overhead GPU driver path, rather than Wine needing to translate DX12 calls into OpenGL/Vulkan calls first. Of course, if you’re a game-engine developer, you know you can achieve the same by just writing your engine to target Vulkan inst…

>> > What is the point of bringing native DX12 to linux if not that?

>> Oh, easy: it’s so games written for DX12 on Windows—that are currently run on Linux using Wine

And why does Microsoft give two shits about that?

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#216

Post by phkahler »

013a wrote: post #196
phkahler wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> This sounds promising, something closer to OSX would give apple competition for devs like myself that want a linux based system and a fluffy "it-just-works" gui No, don't. That seems to be what they want. It's not about running linux apps on Windows. It's about blending the two so that even Linux apps are dependent on Microsft APIs and such. What is the point of bringing native DX12 to linux if not that? BTW they…

> or just dont care because they get to take in money for every user of MS/linux hybrid. Oh my god, the horror. Are you suggesting that I could, I dare to think it, pay Microsoft some money for a working operating system that meets all of my needs? Someone needs to call the EU and get this shut down, this is unacceptable behavior. Look, this fear out of the linux community is why I'm hesitant to immerse myself in it.…

>> Oh my god, the horror. Are you suggesting that I could, I dare to think it, pay Microsoft some money for a working operating system that meets all of my needs?

You are free to do that now. Maybe Linux meets your needs, or maybe Windows, or something else.

>> Lets say I decide to build a linux app that is dependent on Microsoft APIs, as you fear: what's stopping you from just not using it? If Microsoft allows this, and we're legal with the licensing, what gives you the right to (1) control how I build the software I want to build, and (2) control what kinds of software my users want to use?

Nothing gives me that right. The problem isn't about you or your users. The problem is that longer term, developers like that end up using MS APIs on Linux and then all Linux users are forced to use MS APIs and we all end up paying for it. I don't pay MS anything these days, I use Apple and Linux systems and I don't want MS and other developers to ruin one of my options.

Fortunately the Linux Kernel folks are well aware of this type of thing and don't allow GPL licensed shims that serve no purpose other than supporting proprietary binary blobs.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#217

Post by Avamander »

saberience wrote: post #190
Avamander wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents and older sister say otherwise, if we're posting anecdotal evidence.

Ok, so are you seriously suggesting if we did a random sampling of 60+ aged people in Europe and the US (who use computers) we would find Linux being used by the majority of them? Because if you are I would suggest you're living in a fantasy-land. I would be surprised if 5% of computer-using 60+ year olds use Linux. Yes, I used an anecdote, but it's an anecdote that shows a massive grain of reality. I mean, I work fo…

> Ok, so are you seriously suggesting if we did a random sampling of 60+ aged people in Europe and the US (who use computers) we would find Linux being used by the majority of them?

No, because that's not even close to what you brought up.

> I would be surprised if 5% of computer-using 60+ year olds use Linux.

How many of those were even given the choice? I'd suspect 0%. That's the issue. The immense monoculture in multitude of places reinforces that monoculture.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#218

Post by severino »

ghshephard wrote: post #162
severino wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know lot of people use excel, and can't live without it. Anyway, the point is that we can blame Linux for kernel or driver issues, its thousands of desktop environments for its bugs, etc, but I don't think it's fair to say that Linux "doesn't work" just because Microsoft will never release Linux versions of their desktop software. I have a working Linux desktop and I also use spreadsheets in my day to day work.

What's odd - is that nobody ever decided to build a reasonable spreadsheet package, or imaging package, or heck, any of a hundred decent packages that are available on OS X and Windows. My day-day job is on Linux (And has so been for the last three years) - but that's because I live on a CLI, and my needs for spreadsheets/presentations are (A) Both very rudimentary, and (B) more often then not done with google docs a…

Yes, I understand your position. I tend to disagree, because for me, the Windows world is not a better world: I don't specially like the Windows UI, I don't like how updates are done, I value using open-source software and I don't like my vendor to be constantly trying to make me use its software, be it Internet Explorer, Edge or Bing. But if that is the best of both worlds for you, that's great.

However, I feel WSL means using Linux to enhance a product (Windows) while at the same time preventing the growth of that same system in its standalone fashion. Because WSL means you won't be using a lot of the usual Linux desktop stuff, you'll be a pure Windows user in a lot of statistical data, and you won't be helping to make Linux a better OS. Not to say that it can get worse once Microsoft starts releasing Windows-only Linux components for WSL, as (I think) started happening already.

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#219

Post by kyuudou »

robbyt wrote: post #124
bugBunny wrote: post #43

The only reason I am still using windows is MS office. I might give it a try myself... My home machine is running Arch linux and works flawlessly for more then two years already. Just my work is still stucked with a lot of documentations sharing between some other people and I need MS office programs which have no alternative in open-source word. well, the office.com looks promising these days and I hope to switch co…

This reads like a Slashdot post from 1998.

Just needs a "even my grandmother is using KDE seamlessly with her online banking site"

Re: Microsoft submits Linux kernel patches to enable complete Hyper-V on Linux

#220

Post by rusticpenn »

phkahler wrote: post #173
aunty_helen wrote: post #3

>Windows 10 is on a path to becoming a hybrid Windows/Linux system This sounds promising, something closer to OSX would give apple competition for devs like myself that want a linux based system and a fluffy "it-just-works" gui

>> This sounds promising, something closer to OSX would give apple competition for devs like myself that want a linux based system and a fluffy "it-just-works" gui No, don't. That seems to be what they want. It's not about running linux apps on Windows. It's about blending the two so that even Linux apps are dependent on Microsft APIs and such. What is the point of bringing native DX12 to linux if not that? BTW they…

>> It's the "extend" phase they are in now.

No, The OS is not their main money maker anymore. Even the team designing the windows OS has become much smaller ( inside sources). The focus is on the money maker - Cloud.

Post reply on HN