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Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

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Re: Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

#211

Post by [deleted] »

tyingq wrote: post #185
jkelleyrtp wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole thing seems crazy to me (I don't do a lot of importing). Customs has the ability to determine if the UL logo on a charger is fake or if a phrase breaks trademark law, and then confiscates an _entire_ shipment? Why is it CBP/custom's job to enforce trademark law? I could just as easily print a fake logo in the US, but border control won't come after me - the people responsible for enforcing those laws will.…

Also, they auctioned it all off later, sans the adapters. So they get the concept :)

[deleted]

Re: Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

#212

Post by toast0 »

elmo2you wrote: post #207
toast0 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US Customs has been checking international shipments for counterfeit goods and other contraband since a long time. It's part of what a Customs agency customarily does. How else would you prevent counterfeit goods from entering a country? For domestic mad counterfeits, it's possible to enforce laws (or court orders) prohibiting manufacture, but that's not really the case when the products are made overseas.

You said that correctly: counterfeit products. While Apple fanboys no doubt will claim that these OnePlus products are counterfeits of Apple products, that's mostly just their ignorance or wishful thinking talking. From what I can see, there is no actual counterfeiting involved here. This product is both generic enough in design and not brandishing any Apple specific markings. Also comes with a box that makes it clea…

Sorry, I didn't mention it earlier, since you seemed upset by Customs in general. This certainly appears to be a false positive, and it will most likely get resolved in favor of the importer, unless there's some trademark action we're all unaware of. The shipment is still gonna be delayed though, and that delay is not likely to be compensated; it's a risk in the system (along with many other risks of loss or delay in international shipping)

It would probably be better for CBP not to publish their seizures like this until they had gone through the process.

Re: Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

#213

Post by colejohnson66 »

jaywalk wrote: post #179
dragonwriter wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since they are legal items that are merely prohibited to transport through the checkpoint, and since no forefeiture action has been taken which would lawfully deprive the owner of title, only a seizure of possession to prevent the prohibited action, they should be held for return to the owner outside of the secured area with storage charge (and shipment charge if an option for remote return is provided) covering reas…

The owner is given the option to either go put it back in their car, ship it to themselves for a small fee, or let the TSA take it. It's not like "hey, you screwed up and now you lose this item for good!"

“small” fee my ass. When the TSA confiscated a camping knife I kept in my backpack and forgot about, the agent said it’s about $20. Also, for someone who boards in 30 minutes with a TSA line just as long, they don’t really have a choice: it’s lose the item, or miss your flight. So I had to let them take it.

Re: Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

#214

Post by michaelt »

tyingq wrote: post #163
newacct583 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, that sounds correct to me (contra the article here where they're just mindbogglingly wrong). The customs process isn't designed to prioritize customer value, it's designed to prevent counterfeit goods from reaching the market. These were counterfeit. Demanding that they part out the shipment for you to separate the stuff-they-can't-prove-is-counterfeit from the stuff-recipient-actually-wants isn't their job.…

They wouldn't "part it out", they would let me do it. This was an air shipment and the goods were in the same city I'm in. While I'm not happy with the supplier, I don't think this was intentional on their part either. They just source AC adapters from someone else in Shenzhen. You can imagine they aren't real familiar with the consequences of trademark infringement. Which is what this was. Edit: Note that it was all…

Gotta say, this argument that you aren't responsible for the illegal items in your shipment, and the sender isn't responsible for them either, really drives home to me the importance of these CBP inspections.

Re: Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

#215

Post by jetru »

kop316 wrote: post #168
tyingq wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what should they have done?" Seized the adapters. That would have been enough for me to be more careful about adapters in the future. Seizing the whole shipment hurts me, but not the supplier. See my other example here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24469959 There's any number of things you might not expect, and the receiver is the only one hurt when they are a smaller player.

Respectfully, how would they be able to verify that a) you are being truthful, and b) that only part of the shipment is real, when once part has been shown not to be?

You can say that about pretty much anything and anyone. What is truth anyway?

Re: Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

#216

Post by tyingq »

Avtomatk wrote: post #210
tyingq wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are large categories of products, this one included, where there are ZERO remaining US suppliers. The only other country I could find with the products was Taiwan, and it wasn't 100% clear if they were just importing Chinese products. They were significantly more expensive.

>There are large categories of products, this one included, where there are ZERO remaining US suppliers. I don't know very well how patents and intellectual property protection work... But, if there are no suppliers of such a product in the United States (assuming your previous argument as true), then what product is being pirated? if there is none (worth the redundancy), to my understanding, there has to be a vendor…

It was a UL mark. Underwriters Laboratories. They are a company that tests products for electrical safety.

The manufacturer of the AC adapter didn't pay for testing, but put the mark on the adapter. The adapters weren't the main thing I was importing, so I hadn't paid any attention to it in the order process. The technical reason for the seizure was trademark violation.

Re: Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

#217

Post by tyingq »

sjg007 wrote: post #206
tyingq wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, they auctioned it all off later, sans the adapters. So they get the concept :)

Could you buy them at auction?

The winning bid was higher than what I paid :)

Re: Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

#218

Post by tyingq »

michaelt wrote: post #214
tyingq wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't "part it out", they would let me do it. This was an air shipment and the goods were in the same city I'm in. While I'm not happy with the supplier, I don't think this was intentional on their part either. They just source AC adapters from someone else in Shenzhen. You can imagine they aren't real familiar with the consequences of trademark infringement. Which is what this was. Edit: Note that it was all…

Gotta say, this argument that you aren't responsible for the illegal items in your shipment, and the sender isn't responsible for them either, really drives home to me the importance of these CBP inspections.

I didn't say I wasn't responsible. Just arguing what the consequences should be for what was pretty clearly an unintentional violation.

Also, see my friend's experience of a CD-ROM with a fake "Compact Disc" mark that resulted in a shipment of SBC's getting seized. Perhaps that one is more clear where the receiver wouldn't have any idea to even ask: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24469959

I will also hazard a guess that many HN folks have ordered things like generic arduinos, led blinky stuff, etc, and gotten an adapter with a fake UL mark. Smaller scale, but the same thing nonetheless.

Re: Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

#219

Post by mindslight »

kop316 wrote: post #145
unixhero wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one, cannot get over this: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=tsa+lot+of&_trksid=p233... Pretty much theft and resale.

As someone who (used to) travel a lot, the TSA have signs plastered throughout the entire security line to remind you to look through your belongings and make sure you don't have any banned items (they included what they were and had pictures of them too). If you went through airport security with a banned item (such as a knife), what they did was offer you three choices: - They let you go back outside of security an…

The TSA is responsible for creating the roadblock, and therefore should be responsible for keeping travelers whole. "read the rules" is not a justification for their policies, as it's common to have an arbitrarily-prohibited item hide in your bag. Especially the types of items that you want to live in your backpack (eg pocket knives) that you have to make sure to unpack before the airport.

For anything that can be checked on the airplane, there should be a free miniature bag that gets added to your checked luggage.

Anything that cannot ride on the airplane but can be ground shipped should get you a free envelope to ship.

For the remaining stuff (eg bulging lithium batteries), there should be a system whereby you can leave it at the checkpoint to be picked up by someone else within the same day.

Failing all of those, disposal should be the last option.

Re: Feds seize ‘counterfeit Apple AirPods’ that are actually OnePlus Buds

#220

Post by ardy42 »

tyingq wrote: post #165
kop316 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CBP has no idea what your intention is. Would you agree that a reasonable assumption that if an electronic is shipped with an AC adaptor, then that electronic will be used with it? And CBP does not have a crystal ball: - Are you using it as is? - If the UL marking is fake, who is to know about the entire thing? - Are you going to resell this? If so, is the AC adaptor going with it? - How do they know that this was an…

"what should they have done?" Seized the adapters. That would have been enough for me to be more careful about adapters in the future. Seizing the whole shipment hurts me, but not the supplier. See my other example here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24469959 There's any number of things you might not expect, and the receiver is the only one hurt when they are a smaller player.

> Seized the adapters. That would have been enough for me to be more careful about adapters in the future. Seizing the whole shipment hurts me, but not the supplier.

Where the adapters packaged separately to make that possible? Or are you asking some customs inspector to unbox all your items, remove the adapters, and repack it all?

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